Audition and Predictions for the 7th Season of America's Got Talent: Turf (Alonzo Jones)

Alonzo Jones, who goes by the name "Turf," has come up as a street performer to gain national exposure through America's Got Talent. I have seen a few contortionist dancers on various TV programs. But Turf is the one who seems poised to make a deep run on Season 7 of AGT. All three judges put him through to the Las Vegas audition round after his San Francisco audition. Of course, he went and cried in the interview piece after his performance. That is usually got for a lot more votes if he makes the live voting rounds.

The producers also seem to love Turf. He was the last act to perform in the San Francisco episode, which aired on Tuesday, May 15, 2012. Based on that and the feedback from his act, I predict that he will easily make the voting rounds. They spent way too much time on his street-performer backstory to not give the public a chance to vote for him.

Winning Predictions:

Even though there are several more initial audition rounds to air, I am confident in predicting that Turf will make a round or two in the live voting rounds if he is selected for that phase of the competition. However, I am also confident in making a prediction that he will not win.

I suppose a dancer will win one day on America's Got Talent. But until that happens, it is easy to just pick another singer than to make a wild pick on a contortionist dancer such as Turf.

I actually think the contortionist part of his act is not that impressive. Someone being born flexible like that is not really a talent. However, he has obviously worked some on his overall dancing skills. His slow-motion moonwalk,for example, is pretty fantastic. That general talent level plus his backstory should get him enough votes to at least survive one or two live voting rounds.

But dancers all meet the same fate on AGT. To put it bluntly, they lose and often even fail to make the finale. To improve his chances, Turf will have to do a lot more in the area of choreography and telling a story. His audition was just a street-performer-like exhibition. Dance teams that make the finale are far more unique and develop a show instead of just displaying raw dancing skills.

It is certainly possible for Turf to make the Top 10 with more interesting choreography, stage arrangement and other factors. Hairo Torres made it to the Top 10 as a solo dancer. Getting to the finale, though, is a hurdle that will be hard to overcome. Singers are still going to have the advantage, and more unique dancing acts have the edge over raw talent.

Unless he makes

dramatic changes,

my prediction

is that Turf

will not make

the finale of

America's Got Talent 7.
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Tips about Prenuptial Agreements

Nothing can take the heat out of a romance faster than the words, “Prenuptial Agreement.” However, in the long run, there is nothing quite like the comfort of knowing you have planned for the future and are protected. The trouble for most, when it comes to prenuptial agreements, is that there is a lack of understanding as to what they can and cannot do.

It is a commonly held belief that only the fabulously wealthy need a prenuptial agreement; however, that is far from the truth. Sure Donald Trump has millions he may want to protect, but there are plenty of people that have worked for years building a nest egg, a retirement account or purchasing a home that they want to make sure is protected. Perhaps most importantly, a prenuptial does not mean the parties are ever planning to divorce and it may be nice to know before the wedding if your spouse refuses to sign such an agreement.

If you have assets you acquired before your marriage, have children from a prior marriage, expect to acquire any money or property, have a business that is about to take off, own real estate, want to address alimony or are expecting any other kind of financial windfall, you could benefit from a prenuptial agreement. By being aware of a few basic concepts, you can better understand the workings of prenuptial agreements and when you may benefit from one. If you have the protection of a prenuptial agreement, you can control where your property goes and avoid having a judge or court determine how property that may arguably be separate is divided.

First, what can a prenuptial agreement protect? That is largely dependent upon the parties and how they want to structure an agreement. It is quite common for the parties to look at several factors when putting together a prenuptial agreement. Initially, the parties may look at the present time to determine what they each own and, perhaps what, if anything, they may have acquired together during their relationship. Frequently, a prenuptial agreement will identify all of the parties’ separate property and set out that any identified property shall remain separate should the parties divorce. The parties can also take advantage of the process to address how they will treat property acquired after they are married and how it will be treated in the event of a divorce. As the parties work through the agreement process, they largely have the ability to treat property in any fashion upon which they can agree.

A second area that the parties will want to address is how property acquired after the marriage will be treated. A common approach is to set out that any property acquired entirely by one spouse through their own efforts, is their separate property, regardless of use during the marriage. The parties may also set out that any property acquired during the marriage be treated as marital property subject to some sort of division under the applicable laws of the appropriate jurisdiction, or upon a schedule determined by the parties, should they divorce. As prenuptial agreements are very unique to the parties, the specific content of a prenuptial agreement is dependent on the particular assets of the parties and how they determine to address them. On this note, beware of the attorney who offers or suggests a form prenuptial agreement, a “one size fits all.” These can only offer false security and ensure problems down the road.

It is also possible for the parties to address things such as permanent or temporary spousal support following any separation. However the parties cannot waive child support as, regardless of their intent or desires, the state will allow and set a child support obligation to make sure any children are adequately cared for; however, the parties can agree to excess child support or responsibility for college expenses. It is also possible for the parties to agree upon custodial arrangements.

For a prenuptial agreement to be bona fide, there are certain requirements that must be met, though these requirements may vary from state to state. Even still, there are several requirements that are applicable in most states. The first is that the agreement be formally executed. In laymen’s terms, this means that the prenuptial agreement jotted down on the back of a napkin and initialed by the parties is not worth the paper it is written on. In most states, both parties must have separate legal representation to advise them of their rights and to review the agreement. It is also quite common for both parties to be required to make a full and complete financial disclosure so the other party can understand what they may be giving up. Most importantly, the agreement must be signed in a formal fashion with witnesses and perhaps a Notary Public. It is also a good idea to execute more than one copy of the prenuptial agreement with each spouse and a neutral party keeping a copy as well. Many would be surprised at the number of people who go through the emotional rollercoaster ride of executing a prenuptial agreement then over the years, losing the agreement, being unable to locate it when they need it. Keep a copy in a safe place.

Ultimately, the manner that is best suited to starting the process of formulating a prenuptial agreement is to have a meeting with a qualified and experienced divorce attorney. Be prepared to identify the property you hold, property you may be acquiring, you earnings and other issues relevant to your present and potential financial position.

After you have an understanding of the issues relevant to the prenuptial agreement you will want to approach the issue with your future spouse. This is perhaps the most case specific part of the process; however, there is one rule that generally applies. The earlier in your relationship you broach the subject, the better. You do not want to bring up the subject for the first time in the days before your wedding. This can cause a host of problems such as a coercion claim on the part of your future spouse, not to mention that you may suddenly find yourself without a fiancée as your wedding approaches.

Most importantly, be honest and be fair; however, remember, when a prenuptial agreement is being drafted, the majority of the time one party has assets that are being protected and one spouse is giving up a claim to this property. With this being the case, it is frequently a reality that one party has everything to lose and one has everything to gain from a challenge to the agreement. Your attorney can address certain techniques and approaches to protect you from this scenario; however, challenges to prenuptial agreements are something you should be prepared to deal with. You also want to avoid dealing with frivolous issues such as religious preferences or personal issues such as requirements for hair style or weight gain. If such provisions are included in a prenuptial agreement and the agreement is challenged, you run the risk of having the entire agreement voided.

It is common place for the agreement to state that the consideration for the entire agreement is the marriage of the parties, meaning that for the agreement to be valid, you must get married. No marriage, no agreement. As well, after the agreement is signed and you are married, after some time, you may want to consider a review and revision. For instance, if certain a certain amount of alimony was agreed to, or certain property was addressed in a certain manner, after a period of marriage, you may want to revise the agreement to be more generous. As well, it is also common place to put in a “termination clause” or “sunset provision” that calls for the expiration of the agreement if a set amount of time passes without the agreement coming into effect.

This article is not offered as, nor is it to be construed, as legal advice, nor does it create any relationship, attorney/client or other, between the author and the reader. To obtain any legal advice, consult an attorney licensed to practice law in your state.


Stock Performance Review: Capital One Financial Corp. (COF)

With the current economic condition of most U.S. communities, a common category of products consumed is financial products. As a result many financial companies that are traded publicly are experiencing growth. If you are interested in investing in a financial company, then you may want to consider Capital One Financial Corp (COF) as it is one of the most popular financial companies that is traded. However, before you spend your money on this stock you should learn a little but about it.

What Capital One Financial Corp. (COF) Does

Capital One is a financial corporation that offers its customers a wide variety of financial products. They are well known as a credit card company, however, they also offer investment, retirement, small business loans, personal loans, and mortgage products. This is a very well known company, and it has a strong financial history behind it.

52 Week Performance Review

During the 52 week period ending on 08/22/06 COF’s value fluctuated between 71.15 and 90.04. On 08/22/06 the stock ranged from 71.99 and 73.17. The fluctuations of high and lows during this 52 week period were probably influenced by the economic problems faced by the U.S., as well as the increase in the federal interest rates. However, as the economy stabilizes it is projected that COF’s value should increase again, and improve to a value of 100.41 within a year. This means that at a value in the low $70s, this may be the best time to buy this stock.

Historical Performance Review – The Last Five Years

COF saw its last major dip between 2002 and 2003. Then between 2003 and 2005 the stock experienced an increasing trend. Then between 2005 and 2006 the stock stabilized with only moderate fluctuations. In 2006 the stock fluctuated up and down, however, it did not get above the $75 mark as of 08/22/06.

Strengths of COF

COF has several strengths as a stock. First the company is financial secure and stable. They are making a profit consistently and their projected growth potential is promising. Secondly there are a lot of people that use Capital One Financial Products. This company offers a wide selection of financial products that cater to every financial demographic in the United States. Finally, COF products are accepted by most vendors who accept credit cards making the product more valuable to customers and businesses.

Weaknesses of COF

Like most stocks the value of COF shares are vulnerable to current economic conditions. The future of this stock is also troubled by the possibilities of additional dips in its value caused by economic troubles, changing interest rates, and future restrictions created by the federal government.

For More Information

If you would like more information about this stock, or about Capital One Financial Corp., please post your requests below. Also if you are interested in another stock’s performance review you can request that below as well. Links to stock performance reviews, and requested information will be posted on this site when they become available so check back often.


UK Organization Aims to Aid Developing Countries With Your Donations

A unique UK-based organization accepts donations for gifts from registered charities, which in turn go to some very versatile causes world-wide. For instance, for 75 British pounds you can buy a SuperGoat. That’s right. These goats are specially bred for conditions in Kenya, Uganda, and Zimbabwe. These goats are indeed super because they are more resilient than your average goat and also breed faster, producing more milk than your average goat. GoodGifts has been around for three years and the generosity of donaters is in a word, SUPER!

The options range from one end of the financial spectrum to the other. If you’re looking to make a small donation but still have an impact, how about purchasing a bike for a midwife in a developing country for the low price of 35 British pounds. Having a bike enables midwives to visit more villages and keep the life cycle in motion. On the other hand, The Delivery World Trust can help you when you donate 2500 pounds and buy a 100 acre rainforest, which you get to name.

Here are some of the charities and services they provide:

The World Land Trust and the International Tree Foundation will deliver 2 mangrove seedlings or plant a quarter acre swamp in India and The Philipines.

APT will deliver a Kalashnikov, rocket launcher, small armored vehicle, or a tank for peace efforts in Sierra Leone.

Sight Savers International will set up operations to help restore the gift of sight.

Vetaid provides camels in Ethiopia, Somalia, and Somaliland for food, transport and income.

Friends of Tafo, Africa Now, and Keystone will provide a hive of bees, tools and training, and establish a beekeeping cooperative in Ghana, Kenya, and India.

Blue Cross will pay for an old dog to stay in a retirement rest home in the UK for three months.

Grencoda will use your donation to nurture cocoa plants and invest in cocoa processing in Grenada, West Indies where cocoa is in crisis.

Goats For Peace will provide donkey ploughs and donkeys in rural Africa where they provide basic transport, take the sick to hospital and carry animal fodder and water.

UNICEF provides a School-in-a-Box which contains a blackboard, exercise books, slates, chalk and posters for children caught in emergencies.

Vetaid will also provide a bike for a para-vet, bag of medicines, and para-vet training for rural communities in Somaliland, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Mozambique, and Tanzania where communities are dependent on their livestock.

Seeds For Africa furnishes seed kits, fruit trees, tools, and a fresh food garden in South Africa in an effort to better nutrition quantity and quality.

UNICEF will furnish a water pump to provide clean, safe water for the everyday needs of a village.

Help the women of India, through Barsana, India, by ordering saris and shawls to be distributed to widows and other poor women. Your donation will help these women earn a living wage.

Sloths need homes too. The World Land Trust can help us save 250 trees which are home to the Brown-throated three-toed sloth (which is so lazy that algae grows undisturbed on its fur) in the Eastern Brazilian jungle.

These are just a few of the charities and the services GoodGifts provide to countries throughout the world. GoodGifts is quite a unique organization. Be part of the solution. Already in their three-year tenure, 2,000 Rwandan war widows have been given goats. In Africa, 3,000 beekeepers have been equipped with hves.

The Last Man On Earth 1x4 "Sweet Melissa"

I don't mind that there's more than one person on Earth, but I wish they weren't going for boring, generic sitcom romance plots. There's an entire apocalyptic world to discover, who the ***** cares who Phil wants to bone?
6

*Raises hand*

This series is moving so fast it's hard to have time to feel angry with/sad for Phil. I mean, he's a jerk, right? So far that's the point of this show? I would feel sad for him, except he's acting in such a disappointingly honest fashion that I don't?

Phil in his gigantic toolbelt, trying to hammer a nail, had me laughing so hard. I giggle just thinking about it right now.
I also recognized myself a little too much in Phil in this episode to feel entirely comfortable. :/
This episode made me want to see some flashbacks to how Phil's life was before the plague.
5

You know, I get that this show is a comedy on a major network, and there are certain story and character beats that get hit. But the cornballiness of it is really getting to me. Yes, Phil a perpetually frustrated beta-male who can't even get what he wants when he is the last man around. It's just frustrating to watch such an interesting premise get watered down by cliche sitcom tropes - slobby guy with uptight wife, shrew's husband lusting after blonde fembot, etc.
The show I would want to watch would involve the last man on earth assembling a harem and consuming every psychotropic substance he could get his hands on. Even in the current show we have, it's grating that Phil can't just find his ***** and say, "Let's play a game. Everyone name something from the old world that they're glad isn't around anymore. I'll go first - monogamy!" Just letting Melissa wax on about the sweetness of his marriage while he impotently hems and haws is annoying (yes, I understand the nature of my own power fantasies informing my opinion on the show that I am watching, thank you)
I would love to see an episode where Jon Hamm rolls up in a limo bus, rocking the exact situation I described, only to fall down dead of an aneurysm. Phil looks hopefully to the harem, but they all scoff at him and just drive off in the bus without him.
1

I really did not like this character (Melissa). These are the first people she's seen in a couple of years? You'd think she wouldn't be so bitchy to them... "Pick up a shirt."? Most people wouldn't be that rude to a total stranger!

"For those wondering about the logistics of this virus the green screen
view out Melissa’s new home implies that Tucson is not just a desert,
but a barren wasteland on par with the Sea of Tranquility."
No, that's just how Tucson always is.
3

To subvert the trope of "shrewish ugly woman he's stuck with" vs. "beautiful cool alternative" they should have made him meet January Jones first but make her a *****-- essentially Schaal's character. Yes, she'd be gorgeous but simply an unpleasant person whom he despised. Then he could have met Schall, and have her be awesome. Zaniness follows.
6

I like that idea.. it totally would've made the show feel less predictable and made Phil a little more likable.
1

I don't see how Carol is an unpleasant *****. And I don't see what's cool about Melissa (besides her looks, and having owned a VW Bug).
2

The point isn't really whether Carol is unpleasant or not (I happen to think she is, but that's a personal opinion). It's more about how Phil sees her character and how that sets up the show's central conflict. He started out hating her, and now barely tolerates her; add to that situation a "cool" (aka not-Carol), pretty woman while he's trapped in a marriage, and it creates this love triangle that we've seen a million times. It's just such a cliché, they should have done a twist on it.
1

I can see that. It does seem like a lot of the commenters here, including you, find Carol a lot more unpleasant than I do. I honestly don't really know what people think is so bad about her. The real problem to me is that Phil doesn't stand up for himself. She is "pushy" in that she asks and expects things from him, but he doesn't really say what he wants, at least not that I remember, and instead just goes along with her, trying to hide how he really feels all the time (except for the living situation - he's been very clear there). To me, that's on him, not on her.
I do agree about the cliché of the love triangle though, however I don't think it was emphasized as such really, more just a funny exploration of Phil's regret.
2

It seems ludicrous to compare this show to The Walking Dead, but the one thing they have in common is a world in which the usual social order is destroyed. The very first thing we see (this show's version of) Carol do is criticize Phil's grammar on a very pedantic matter. Then she accuses him of stealing famous art pieces, complains about running stop signs, and loses her mind about handicapped parking spaces and driving into a store. And that's not even getting into the whole "no ***** without marriage" issue.
I think the reason I and so many others find her unpleasant is she sticks to these rigid, dogmatic interpretations of how life should be lived even in the face of no good reason to do so. For instance, Phil didn't steal the art, he preserved it. Stopping and starting a car just wears out the brakes faster and consumes more gas. And what does marriage mean if there is no one else alive? If she were a religious woman who needed the relationship to be ok in the eyes of god, perhaps it's justifiable. But that's not the reason she gave-- she just doesn't their children to be *****, as if that means anything anymore.
She makes some good points about basic sanitation, food procurement, etc., but they're all lost in her impenetrable and incomprehensible stubbornness. And yes, perhaps Phil was being a pushover, but that's sort of the whole point of those episodes, that he was so miserably lonely and bored that he would put up with a very unreasonable and obstinate person in order to have some company.
2

"I think the reason I and so many others find her unpleasant is she
sticks to these rigid, dogmatic interpretations of how life should be
lived even in the face of no good reason to do so."
That makes sense. I'm an orderly person that likes structure, so I probably have a lot more sympathy for her positions based on that. I could totally see myself trying to hang on to the pre-plague mindset as a way to cope.
I don't think she's a great person at all and her stubborness IS annoying, but I don't think she's that bad either.

She also produced one of the Black Keys' early albums.

Am I the only one who thinks no beard Phil looks like Ben Gibbard?...

Why do I have the feeling (if someone has already wrote this theory, I apologize) that they'll introduced a little boy and a little girl soon and they'll all become a family.
1

And quirky neighbors, then we find out Carol's mother also survived...
3

this show is SUPPOSED to be cringeworthy - to work, it would have to walk that fine line between being so weird and disgusting that you can't watch - but then you HAVE to watch just to see what they're going to do next...think of the British version of - well, anything, but I was thinking Absolutely Fabulous or the Office. But, alas, since we're in America, it has to stay closer to the middle...and play it relatively safe...I'm still wondering what's going to happen, but not as much - and it would have been better to have Melissa be a truly biplolar homewrecker, secretly turned on by the fact that Phil is married - just not yet...

It remains easily to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.

So when does Jason Sudeikis show up and 'steal' Melissa?
1

I agree that the scene with the scrapbook was probably the best. We get to see more of who Melissa is outside of Phil's dream (read: not-Carol) girl, and that Carol does appear to have some self-awareness (knowing most would think her crazy for insisting on marriage).
And the last shot of that mess of a door was a good capper to Phil and Carol's conversation.
1

The first episode of the show was better than I expected, but 4 episodes in, it's beginning to feel like absurd proof of TV's lack of diversity. Seriously, all the survivors all white and hetero? No people of color, no LGBT? It's interesting they cast January Jones because the image of female characters as motivated by either desire for marriage or desire for ***** could have been written by Don Draper.
3

Seriously, all the survivors all white and hetero?
But of course.
2

Well, statistically it's a pretty damn good chance that a survivor is white and hetero. Especially the hetero part.
2

Time to bust out some math. Any individual survivor being white is likeliest outcome — let's round up and say 2/3 of population is white. But odds of all three survivors being white is 2/3 * 2/3 * 2/3, or 8/27, or just under 1/3. So, yes, this is TV's lack of diversity at work. And you can't tell me they not able to find non-white actress who could out-act January Jones.
4

I've got it! The virus is racist!
1

Yeah, something that happens roughly one out of three times happening is bullshit. Maybe I could buy it if it was 2/7 or above, but 1/3? Gimme a break.

You missing point entirely. It not that 1/3 is impossible, it that it not likeliest outcome... unless you on network TV show where all-white cast is almost always likeliest outcome.

No, I get your point; you're just wrong. If something has a 1/3 chance of occurring by chance, it is absurd to say definitively that it is motivated by anything.
Also, ***** diversity casting. Put someone entertaining on a show and I don't give a flying ***** what color they are or where there ancestors came from. There are exactly zero leads on TV who look like me because I don't define myself by skin tone. I define myself by meaningful attributes and am far more interested in seeing someone with a similar personality and worldview to someone with my same race.

But television casting never happen by chance. Every decision is conscious choice. Creators of Friends made conscious decision to portray most diverse city on Earth as 95% white, and creators of Orange Is New Black made conscious decision to use conventionally attractive white woman to draw viewers into stories of black and Latino women (and even older white women, who not terribly well-served demographic either) because, sadly, that how television work. Original comment not so much about just this show in vacuum; it about how television has long, not-over-by-long-shot history of overrepresenting white people and excluding everyone else, and it well-documented that that reinforces racism and white privilege. On that not, me not know you, me not know your background, but did anyone here read "***** diversity casting" and think person who wrote that was anything other than whiter than Martha Stewart's linens?
1

Do you mean worldwide, or in the US? 'Cause worldwide, and in the Western Hemisphere in general that is not true.

I keep wondering if they're going to the Walking Dead thing and never address the reality that gasoline spoils after a year or two. I would like to see all the generators, cars, etc. be all diesel.

Someone else is showing up next episode for sure.

So with each passing episode I've been liking this less.
From the show's complete disinterest in exploring what civilization would look like after a massive die-off (really? no looting? no wrecked cars? no corpses?) to the mostly unlikeable characters, to the whole "gasoline hasn't gone bad" thing which Walking Dead is guilty of too, to the fact that you can't repopulate the planet with 2 or 3 people and that should be really obvious to anyone with half a brain, to tonight's (for me, watching the download) sorry display of ***** sitcom cliches... I'm not laughing and this show really feels like a wasted opportunity.
We've got two great comic actors with a terrible, terrible ***** script. I'm giving this one more episode, I want to laugh or be interested, if not, I'm done after the next episode.
Giving this a B seems pretty generous to me. C- or D, if you ask me.
2

I wanted to like this show, but it is kind of falling flat in the premise department. There was a great SNL sketch a long time ago with Jon Lovitz and Geena Davis about him being the last man on Earth and she was the last woman and he still could not score with her..that was funny and sad at the same time. If they would have done that with Melissa, it might have worked better.
1

No *looting*?!? Phil's done some damned fine looting!!

Yeah but only Phil. All the stores he goes into are pristine. It's like society didn't collapse one little bit while everyone on Earth was dying.
2

Musta been fast... like a huge, not-really-choosy Rapture?

Realistically there is no virus that could kill the entire U.S population quickly enough that people wouldn't have time to get out there for some looting. There's no vector that could simultaneously infect everyone. I mean, I know these questions aren't the point of the show, but it's distracting. Same kinda thing applies to Carol's plan to repopulate... surely she's not stupid enough to believe that 2 or even 3 people could accomplish it... anyway, these questions wouldn't matter if the show was funny, but this episode was about as funny as an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond.
2

Maybe I'm just under-thinking it... but am personally really enjoying the show so far... illogic, tropes and all.

I will allow that all 3 actors are excellent! I find the story weak, although it's possible I'm overanalyzing. I'm still willing to give it a chance, but it better get good, fast if it wants to keep me.
Douglas Coupland's book "Girlfriend in a Coma" has a lot of the same stuff (doing fun ***** after the world ends) but is a lot more thoughtful and interesting. I might just read it again if it turns out I can't keep watching this show!

This is bugging me--that dream sequence (well, up until the diarrhea) was referencing something--what the heck is it??

It reminded me of the old (OLD) SNL commercials for the "Love Toilet"...
1

"Moby *****? Try Moby Double *****."
I still ***** love this show. Forte was on form in this episode, his inner horny psycho springing to life. Desperate Phil is my favourite kind of Phil after Lonely Phil. I can't wait to see where this goes! Unlike the world as we know it, I never want this series to end.
4

I get the feeling some people are docking points whenever the show isn't what they want it to be. Phil's behavior is still consistent with his character whom, if you think about it, we still don't really know that well. And maybe I'm a schlub too but I was very amused by how he and Carol both handled the situation. I'm still waiting for a reason to like January Jones in anything, but overall I thought this was pretty hilarious the whole way through
3

I think its funny in places, the Carol/Melissa wedding photo conversation was hilarious. I think though your defense of the show is actually the problem with it. I think January Jones was fine, but it seems premature to have put her in the show when we only had three episodes of him being alone or with Carol. It has a rushed feeling and we do not know these characters so its hard to get invested in Phil "cheating" on Carol after only knowing them three episodes. They showed him being alone and bonding with Carol over funny montages instead of developing the characters more. I think Jones character could have been a season finale twist or something after setting up these characters a bit more.

That's a pretty good point

I agree with most of the points in this review..except the grade. Creating a supposed 'love triangle' with a normal looking women against a horny, beer drinking blonde is the most trite plot lines ever. Very disappointing, and borderline offensive.
1

I like this but it's just a little too broad, if they pulled back just a bit, toned down the slapstick, I think it would really hit a sweet spot. There's no feeling of consequences or weight of the past. I know it's a comedy but there needs to be some acknowledgement of what's happened to the world and how they feel about it. Comedy comes from tragedy as well as falling over while taking off your pants.
1

I wrote a post last week about the potential problem Jones' arrival could mean for the show and although it wasn't as bad as I feared, it was pretty much as I expected it would be.
To recap, I have no issue with Jones as an actress - I think she's really good in Mad Men - but The Pretty Blonde is a pretty bland stereotype often used in comedies and Melissa is no exception. She's barely given any joke to work with and the only reason she's there is to provide material to the other characters.
Honestly, I'm wondering if the show wouldn't be better if she was the main character. She would be better developed and the more relatable character usually makes a better protagonist than a kook like Phil.

"SHOTGUN!"
[truck explodes] 1

Louise really saves this show, it would be hard to imagine it without her. Will Forte seemed to be a bit overdone this episode, it was kind of stupid after awhile.
1

Upvoted for calling Schaal "Louise."
1

Weird huh? 'll always see her as Louise.

they went way overboard with phil's douchey attempts to impress melissa. making him "hard to like" is one thing, but making him so cartoonishly inept around a pretty lady is just irritating to watch. it's pretty disappointing, and it'll be extremely eye-roll-inducing if he actually does end up hooking up with melissa after his antics in this episode.
2

Oh but thats all you need to get us girls....act like a ***** idiot!!!

it's always worked in my experience (of watching films and television)

That's very true...

I could understand the criticism of "Man is tired of his wife and lusts after the hot young sexpot" being trite if this was yet another case of a man frustrated by a woman he presumably loves or at least loved at one point enough to marry her. But that's not the case in LMoE. Phil married Carol out of (i dunno) respect(?) to Carol and her eccentric wishes--not because he loved her. Marriage didn't matter to him, but did to her. Now, enter a woman he would at least lust after, if not outright love, as she's apparently every guy's dream (totally chill and down to drink beer).
As we've seen something like this before, this would be the part of the show where the guy realizes how long and deep the river runs between he and his spouse and kicks the the fleeting pleasure of sated animal love to the curb for the real romantic emotional love that comes from years if not decades of love/friendship and maybe a house and kids, like in the Simpsons ep where Homer ditches a come-and-get-it Mindy for Marge. What does Phil have with Carol? This isn't his love and never was. She's a friend of necessity to whom he shows an unusual amount of dedication and affection for someone he would otherwise never spend a minute around pre-apocalypse, and yet he stays true to her even though the institution of marriage supposedly means nothing to him. I thought the whole thing was really sweet.
Sorry, but the critics-decrying-the-tropes-we've-seen-a-thousand-times is itself a trope we've seen a thousand times. I'd fake congratulate you on pointing it out (and deducting a whole grade from the show because of it) were it actually correct.

The Flash 1x15 : review episode "Out Of Time"

I had the biggest grin on my face the last 5 or 10 minutes of this episode. So, so good.
1

Sorry for nitpicking, but it's still Eobard Thawne, not Eobard Thane, right?
Could I be any more of a nag?

I was going to give it a C, until the last 10 mins. I couldn't stand the shipping angst and Joe thinking he could take on WW on his own.

It's some smart timing that they aired this on St. Patrick's day, because clearly she was wearing a button that said Kiss Me, I'm Iris.
3

I really liked the episode, but after I got to thinking about it I'm worried that it will be like it never happened for everyone but Barry (who didn't even know about Cisco's death). I don't think I'll really know how I feel about that until next week, but for now I'm on the fence.
I was really happy that Iris learned the truth, because I think that needed to happen and I didn't want it dragged out for a long time. I was hoping they'd learned from keeping Laurel in the dark for too long. But I have a feeling that next week, events will play out differently and none of that will happen and she'll just remain in the dark and all the progress from this episode will be erased.
I was shocked that they would be bold enough to kill off a main character like Cisco. But now, I think Barry will somehow manage to save his life and it will never happen and Cisco won't remember the truth about Wells.
I guess the Wells stuff is good for the audience. They confirmed for the audience that this Reverse-Flash is Eobard Thawne/Professor Zoom, but I really wanted the characters to learn that information as well.
1

It would be funny if only the speedsters remember. Wells is getting ready to kill Cisco only for Cisco to not remember and be like "hey! Wells! movie night tonight! you get the popcorn?"
2

Wow. This was an A episode. i just love that this show keeps surprising me and it's such awesome viewing experience when it comes to the action set pieces.

Watching this episode, it occured to me that this show has really got to step up its game with its female characters. It became obvious when Barry and the other male police characters went off to catch the badguy but left Iris and Park to go through their relationship drama. Also, Caitlin's been mostly a reactive and passive character since the show's run. Every plot of hers is set to the same note, her relationship to Ronnie and pining after him in one way or another.
It would have been better if the show had a recurring female cop character, or even gave one of its already female cast members a more active role in the story/a plot not tied to their relationships with boys.
8

Just fantastic! When Barry first saw the 2nd speedster, i thought they might be introducing the Black Flash/Speed Force. But once they showed that much detail when Barry stopped, I knew we were going to get a time travel story. I wonder if this Barry replaces the Barry from that timeline (which would appear to be the case otherwise they should both be at the intersection) or if he is going to have to avoid himself, Marty McFly style. Either way, what a great hour of TV!
1

I think he replaced himself given he saw exactly the same things at the end of the episode that he did at the start. If past and future Barry had stopped then we should have seen two of them.

You know: Time travels create divergent universes.
Barry and Barry meet each other just in the point in which the universes diverge, then everyone is in different timelines.
So no replacement, just... Well, wibbly wobbly timey wimey.

Cisco's scene with Wells was really good. Your first instinct to tell him run but then you realize how hopeless the situation. Then he's just standing there not quite holding back the tears over the betrayal and what is about to happen. It really made the scene hit harder.
The romantic angst really needs to get dialed back a bit. The seesaw that is Barry/Iris' feelings for each other really needs a break.
7

The question is now, will Barry move through time again and bring new threats back with him?

sooo... who else think everything that happened in this episode(reveals\injuries\deaths) are going to get reversed(pun intended) by Barry going back in time?

Well, they're not going to happen the same way or at all obviously. I would guess maybe the Captain still gets injured, but everything else will remain status quo except Barry will have experience an Iris kiss and be all moody about it.

Im betting that Wells kinda forces Cisco to go see his family during the Buster Keaton movie.

This trailer tells ALL about the upcoming episodes, and it's awesome.
1

Just came back to check, man this is a shitload of comments.
1

If it wasn't for all that love triangle business this would have been an A for me! I hope all the reveals and everything don't get reset, that'd be super annoying!

He goes through time, then says "Oh Boy", ala Dr. Sam Beckett from Quantum Leap?!?! Writers of The Flash...? Will your geeky brains marry me?! :D

I keep forgetting that the police captain is *****, because it's such a non-issue on the show, and the show deserves a ton of credit for that. Kudos to the writers. Also for the impressive diversity amongst the main cast members, which is also not even remarked on by the show. The world of The Flash is inspiring not only because of heroes like The Flash, but also because of the equality demonstrated by its non-superpowered citizens.
7

Somewhere there's a bitchin' restaurant where Captain Holt and Captain Singh hang out, drink bourbon, and bond over how they've risen through the ranks despite all the social and professional obstacles they faced.
4

I would watch the ***** out of that show

So I keep seeing these good grades but I'm confused. I watched the pilot and the show seemed like a Smallville clone which would've been great if I was still in high school but not so great now. Did this show change a bit? Did it become different than the smallville mold?
1

It's quite different. Much better at capturing the feel of it's comic hero and portraying Flash stuff than Smallville was for Supes.
1

The relationship stuff is still pretty hard to deal with...and there's a lot of dramatic dialogue that would never come out of a real human's mouth...but the central plotline is pretty exciting and far better than really any other superhero series.
1

The show hasn't changed, and isn't for you.
2

Personally, I think this show destroys Smallville. The relationship stuff is a little annoying at times, but it's also fairly harmless and low stakes (i.e., easy to ignore).
1

There's one part of this show I find so infuriating, and The Flash has done it more than once. Mardon is sitting in a car 50 feet away from the side of the road where Barry saved Joe. Instead of, oh I don't know, running over there super fast and punching him in the face, it's just cut to a commercial break and [I guess?] he got away!
2

If there's one thing Barry knows he can't win against in Central City, it's commercial breaks. What they don't show you is there's an actual "commercial clock" which when activated gives everyone in the city about four minutes of compulsory relief from their given circumstances and predicaments, allowing them to reset unhindered into positions of slight advantage. The villain in control of this mysterious temporal superpower is still unknown but it's only a matter of time before he reveals himself.
3

So there is a plot point that I am finding a bit perplexing. Wells demonstrates to Cisco how we can create a mirrored image of himself (I remember he refers to it as a sort of mirage), and this was to explain how there were two version of Wells (Wells and the Reverse-Flash) in the same room. My question then is how did Wells beat himself up like that, and how was he able to be in the Reverse-Flash outfit and his normal clothing at the same time? I would understand if there had been two Reverse-Flashes, but I guess I am still a little confused as to how he was able to pull that off two outfits? I know he created some kind of hologram to trick the team into thinking the Reverse Flash was trapped, but then you clearly see Wells lying in the containment unit and the Reverse-Flash all the way across the room before Reverse-Flash takes out the cops (except for Eddie)..
4

I imagined he was inspired by Edward Norton's solo office beat-up in Fight Club.
1

I'm thinking same guy, two different time periods. The RF could be years away from the containment unit incident, but he comes back to make sure it happens and to beat himself up.
2

A bit of sloppiness here, and unfortunately it's at a crucial point.
Barry previously has struggled to go at about Mach1, which is about 800 miles per hour. That's the speed of sound. The speed of light, which is pretty much 186,000 miles per SECOND, is something he would need to reach to make time travel a possibility.
I know, I know... Speed Force. But THAT'S where the sloppiness comes in. To reach that level, to open up to that level of speed, shouldn't more have been made of it? He reached it with no stress, no exertion, no indication that something was happening at a hitherto UNIMAGINABLE level. That's a moment that can't just be handwaved, right?
2

He was screaming... (and I don't think he's had both Joe and Iris in trouble at the same time).
1

He did reached it with stress and exertion when he was trying to prevent the tsunami (and when Caitlin told him he couldn't go fast enough). As soon as he broke through the barrier he becomes confused and disoriented and slows his pace, catching up to his past self.

Go and kiss your sister and you'd probably do everything possible to reverse time too.

Is that Jesse L. Martin?! Someone please tell me that's Jesse L. Martin! I want him to have another gig...I love that dude!
I might even need to start watching the Flash, even though I've never had any interest in the character, the comic, or this show!

Dude, he's been a major part of the show since the pilot, where have you been?
4

And I quote:
"I might even need to start watching the Flash, even though I've never had any interest in the character, the comic, or this show!"
2

I don't quite understand the promo for next episode.
Spoiler:
.
.
.
Captain Cold seems to be front and center, but shouldn't the next episode deal with Barry's time travel?
1

"You can't change your past, Barry. It'll go worse".
It's a classic time-travel trope. So it's good.
1

Am I the only one upset by how much of a cop-out the whole time travel thing is? I mean the show actually significantly advanced the main plot (in a shocking fashion no less) and cleared the awkward Barry-Iris tension, only to hit the reset and make the episode otherwise inconsequential.
1

If they had never mentioned time travel and then used it as a cheap reset, it would *****, but time travel has always been hovering in the background on this show.
2

And to be honest, I had no idea it was coming either. As insane as each of those moments were, each of them were plausible. It was only after the fact that I realized that he'd be now able to rewrite the second half of the episode.

For me it is a matter of how the next episode handles it. Even knowing that time travel exists, it still borders on cheap to throw these awesome developments at us and take them away
1

True. I was expecting time travel as the season ender, at this point I can't imagine what they'll do to top this episode.

It's called a "fun" cop-out. It lets the writers stuff the episode full of improbable, what-if situations just to show how they would play out, and wasn't it a ton of fun? I also enjoyed how they slowly kept building the events in a way where it wasn't obvious it was a reset episode until Iris/Barry kiss-reveal, and possibly Wells disappearing from his chair in the cafe. It doesn't make it inconsequential at all, though. Those were all plausible events stemming from real developments that could/ may happen in the future, but perhaps not on such an accelerated timeline. It also gave us greater insight into characters motivations and reveals (Wells, Iris) that will still exist even with a reset. It's a time travel show, expect more of this.
2

I could have gone without the time-travel/possible reset. But it is all about how the next episode plays out
2

Yes. The problem with Time Travel is that if you show the audience that you can do it once then you make them wonder why they don't do it every time.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not upset that they introduced the concept. But I wish they didn't make it as easy as "running back and forth" and made it more complicated by making it only possible on the cosmic treadmill for now.
1

Holy ***** that was awesome. That felt like a season finale and there's still eight episodes to go.
1

Minus my *****. GOAT superhero show.
2

Greatest American Hero or GTFO!

the last 10 minutes wont mean a damn thing though... cisco will live and iris will not know the secret.
i think cisco should stay dead to get really personal. look at arrow, S2 was amazing because of deathstroke, he was an amazing villain. then look at rahs al ghul... what a disappointment. hes done nothing.

Wells already killed Barry's mom. How much more personal does it need to be?
1

"adding atmosphere". Nice, Noel Murray.
Actually, that really was a great review..nice to see spelling, syntax and sentence structure for a change.
And I agree with many of your points, although I don't find the quadrangle as bad as all that.
Unfortunately, they're obviously going to undo a whole bunch of what happened this week, when all they really should undo is Cisco's death (I admit it, I like him)
This was one of those episodes that made me remember that sometimes (often, actually) it's best to just shut up and let the storyteller tell their story, and not nitpick.
One can vote with one's attention, 'stead'a constantly complaining and back seat driving...not reviewers, that's your job...I kinda mean us, and not absolutely. Constructive criticism, compliments, observations, comparisons and all the quoting and joking around make me love AV Club.
The whining and "here's how it should have been done", not so much.
3

How has no one here mentioned the wonderful Quantum Leap reference at the very end?
1

They have. I've also just realized that Harrison Wells could be a nod to author H.G. Wells who wrote among other things The Time Machine, but I'm sure that's been mentioned somewhere before as well.
1

What are the chances that the path Barry was running on two consecutive nights included the exact same block of the exact same street, so he could be sure to see himself?
And I could rather easily buy that Joe is second in command to David at the precinct, but is Eddie really third?

I'm wondering now if Singh will become Zoom (the second Reverse Flash). In the comics, he's named Hunter Zolomon (granted a profiler and not a captain) and suffers a similar injury that left him paralyzed from the waist down. He goes on to blame the Flash for not helping him go back in time to fix his injury, busts the cosmic treadmill and gains time travel-ish powers. He then is determined to make the Flash a better hero by constantly ***** with him.

You're mixing different characters, you know?
1

I just thought they may be assigning Zolomon's origin to Singh. They're already playing with the characters as Chyre and Linda Park are Wally related.
Though I do now recall (I think) seeing Singh walking around along with a living Cisco in the next week preview.

He won't get injured again, so presumably not.

caption: "Backstreet's back, alright!"
1

I know, right?
1

When Cisco busted out that control rod, did anybody else think:"Oh. The 11th Doctor's sonic screwdriver. That'll CERTAINLY help.
No? Just me?
What. Evar.
4

I did.

Of course you did.

Shhhhhh. Just go to sleep. Everything is okay.

Don't even worry about Cisco. In the upcoming Flash/Arrow crossover, Ray and Felicity go to Central City and have a grand old time, which they wouldn't do if Cisco was, you know... dead.

This sounds rather sexist of me, but is Iris absolutely clueless that she's leading Barry on all the time?
It makes her look like a ditzy, clueless, manipulative twat that strings men around to get what she wants. It'd be interesting if that was her character from day one, or even make her figure out Barry's the Flash by herself instead of being CW soap opera bullshit.
Are the DC shows inherently misogynistic? Laurel, Barbara, do they not know how to write women other than being just a trophy/fleshlight with legs for the male hero?

As for the writing for women on these shows... yes. They are terrible writers for women because they all end up written as bland stereotypes. So it puts a lot of pressure on the actors to elevate the character. A good actor like Willa Holland can add depth where there is none, but a bad actor like Emily Bett-Rickards just doesn't have the talent to do much more than take a visine drop and hyperventilate out her lines.
In the case of Iris then I think the problem lands more on the actress than the writing. Those little glances are supposed to be subtle but she plays it very direct which makes her look more like a puppeteer than a puppy.
1

So if Hartley was intent on killing Wells, and Wells is actually Eobard Thawne and would kill Our Heroes at will, is Hartley now a hero? Most of Hartley's suspicions/problems with Wells are probably true.

Does anyone else think the moment when Caitlin was trying to warn Barry about Harrison before he time traveled will be key? I'm imagining Barry's actions in the next episode will essentially wipe out all of the reveals in this episode and clear everyone's memories, everyone except for Barry. If Barry remembers how suspicious everyone was, and if Mason Bridge really does have some evidence against Harrison, perhaps he will recall Caitlin's cryptic semi-warning and this will be enough to get him to start investigating Harrison himself.

Holy *****.
That was ***** crazy. Even with the reset button at the end, it was still ***** crazy. Because Eobard ***** Thawne, *****. Holy goddam craziness. Poor Eddie is totally a red herring. I almost feel bad for him. And because he's the big bad and he'll have to go away at season's end, I kind of feel bad for Cavanaugh. I hope they find a way to keep him around. De-power him a bit, or something. Damn, man. I'm a little in shock, still.

Is Cavanaugh officially leaving at the end of the season?
The Wells/Thawn storyline could've been stretched over 2 or 3 seasons so I'm wondering if maybe he wanted out and they had to rush it to a conclusion all in one season. If so, thats really a shame because both the character/actor are fantastic and they definitely will have a hole in the show without him.

I have no idea. I just think it's hard to have a regular on the show who's also the big bad, when everyone knows he's the big bad, and he's also as powerful as a Flash. Obviously, Zoom has limitations that Barry doesn't in this iteration, but still... where do you go with him once you've had the big confrontation?

But after the time reversal then nobody knows he's the big bad except the audience.
As amazing as the revelation was, it isn't actually shocking because they've done great in leading us to this point. Weve seen him stand Kill. Zoom and suit up. And now, even though we have a name, we still have so much more to learn about motives and backstory so I could imagine him sticking around for a while.

Tell you what... Why don’t you keep her safe and I’ll go be The Flash?”
Popular catchphrase of the alternate Earth Flash who's based out of Brooklyn instead of Central City.

The scene between Wells and Cisco was just masterful acting. It was almost hard to listen to the text of the script when the actors were playing the hell out of the subtext. Cisco totally playing the combination of betrayal and horror (at knowing that he's going to die right then,) and Wells with admiration, regret and a calm sadness. Seriously. Probably the best performed scene on television this season.
4

Literally screaming after that scene. "You've been dead to me for centuries". Ooh! Right in the Feels!

Fist off, Noel Murray was a great guest reviewer and I hope he can bring his Flash knowledge to more reviews in the future.
As for the episode itself.. meh. I hate that I feel that way but the writers really have to know how badly they lose their audience with this love quadrangle garbage. Call me an old fashioned prude, but I just can not get invested in a love story between "siblings" with coaching from the "dad". Its beyond creepy and breaks the pace of a very intense and fast moving show.

Someone might have mentioned this already, but there's no way The Flash is faster than a lightening bolt. Lightening moves at around 224,000 mph. Oh wait, this is fiction. Sorry.

I swear this was a B+ when it was originally reviewed but seems to have been changed to an A-.
Good to know the AV Club knows when it's wrong, unlike that moron over at IGN.

I've been saying this whole season that I wouldn't be surprised if Cisco has a few weapons locked away just in case...maybe a vibration weapon for himself and a duplicate of the cold gun for Caitlyn, since they're two of the weapons that the show has established can really drop a speedster.

So Thawne went to kill Barry before he could become the Flash, then got stuck, so spent 15 years building an accelerator to turn Barry into the Flash after all so he could go home? But before he set off to kill Barry, he didn't know about the intervening Crisis and the need for Barry to be around & fast enough to stop it? Because if the Crisis hadn't been stopped by the Flash before Thawne was born, not much of a childhood for Eobard.
Feels to me like more explication is coming that somehow lets Thawne stick around as a dodgy advisor. "Yeah, I was gonna kill you, but Older You stopped me, and then I stumbled across the Magic Newspaper and realized that if I had succeeded, I would never have born, so I decided to create you, then train you to be good enough to stop the crisis that would have murdered me. Since you're not fast enough yet, you won't mind if i kill a few people here and there? Better than the whole planet being swallowed up..."

ep "The Offer" review Arrow Season 3, Episode 16

Sorry, I cannot think of one credible reason why Merlyn is chillin' on the Queen couch instead of rotting in an ARGUS holding cell or at the very least sitting in a Starling jail.
Yeah every once in a while the show will mention that no prison can hold him but I ain't buying it anymore. As much as I've enjoyed Merlyn in the past his presence in this season is really bringing the quality of the storytelling down a couple notches.
Everything bad about this season leads straight back to Merlyn.
8

It gets ever more obvious how much the plot contorts to keep him in the frame.
5

I agree. It's really starting to bother me. I like John Barrowman, but the ways Oliver now bends over backwards for Merlyn is ridiculous.
9

I completely agree: the plot is being built around John Barrowman's charisma in the role, and like Sara says as much as we all like him, the plot contortions are getting absurd at this point. I'm hoping this is the last of them now, and all we have at this point is a recovered Merlyn helping Team Arrow with the obligatory Big Finale Battle against the League of Assassins.
3

Barrowman's 'charisma' is tiring if you've watched Torchwood or anything else he's been in. Being cocky and smarmey seem to be his only range and I'm starting to think its more just his personality than it is acting.
2

I'd have to disagree: he's got some great scenes in Torchwood that show his range, particularly in Children of Earth and the scene where he talks about not having anyone in the season 1 finale; by "charisma" what I really mean is "you like watching him/seeing him on screen", which is why the plot's being over backwards to keep him in it right now.
1

PHRASING!

Diggle: "So is there any particular reason we can't send Merlyn to jail this time?"
Oliver: "Knowing her father is in prison would destroy Thea's fragile state of mind. I have to protect my sister! This is about saving her soul!"
Diggle: (complete lack of surprise) "Right."
15

DIGGLE: What's that? Are you knitting socks for Merlyn now?!
OLIVER: You don't understand... It is Father's Day soon, it would destroy Thea's soul if she didn't have a beautiful gift for her dad. She has been so depressed since Merlyn killed her real dad.
DIGGLE: Can I move to The Flash?
9

At this point, they really should cut Barrowman loose while he still has some dignity left...
1

This should be a real series. Someone draw up a comic strip!
1

I hereby crown you King of the Comment Sections because that was both the funniest thing I've read in the comments section this week and scary accurate.

The thing is I can totally imagine Diggle's face as he happens upon Oliver knitting socks.

I will say the second half is better this season. Based on the trailer, things are about to get crazy.

Ra's told Oliver that the Pit wasn't working on him like it used to, but then he stuck his hand in there and it healed his cut right away. I know it was a small, superficial wound, but was that just to show us how it worked, or was that an indication that Oliver's being played (to get at Nyssa maybe?)? Maybe Ra's never planned on allowing Oliver to take his place, but then the reasoning for why he'd go to all the trouble of fooling him when he could just make his life a living hell and/or/then kill him is a stretch. But most things this season are a stretch, so I'm not really sure what the endgame here is.
3

I was expecting that scene to highlight how the pit was stopping working for him, given that they'd just revealed that information: seemed a bit of an odd choice, to be honest.
1

I think he meant it was no longer halting his aging but was still healing wounds. He never said it stopped working entirely, he just said it wasn't as effective anymore.
1

Just imagine how fast it would have healed the wound when it WAS working effectively! The mere vapours would have restored him!

Oliver becoming the next Ra's al Ghul would make for a much more interesting show.
2

Oliver Queen. Millionaire. Vigilante. Demon's Head.

As much as I love Barrowman, the lengths they're going to keep him in the plot are getting silly. So, who wants to help me proposition the networks to create a Malcolm/ Cal from SHIELD spin-off? I'm thinking RV road-trip across the country, causing mayhem, picking up strays, and coming up with increasingly ridiculous supervillain plans.
5

This. This. THIS.
THIS!!!

One would have to cross universes, but sure...

Would still make more sense than crossing streams.

Question for those more versed in the comic universe of this show: Are there some clear rules of succession for the Demon's Head? Ra's made it sound like it's prophesy based yet Nyssa threw a hissy fit that implied she expected to inherit the title. So what is it?

Well, in the comics, he's never ACTUALLY had a successor, so it's hard to say.
But it seems to really just be "I think this guy is a worthy replacement". I think Nyssa just felt she should have been the one her father chose.
4

Ah - thanks. Somehow I had expected that there exists massive mythology around the whole thing complete with lists of previous Demon's Head back to whenever the League had been started.

Well, Ra's was the first Demon's Head who started the League. He's been looking for a successor for awhile now, to no avail.

He should try linkedin.
2

From the way it seemed, not only was Ra's angry with Nyssa for letting her emotions about Sarah control her judgment, he was also concerned with the prophecy that Malcolm mentioned in the apartment. So I feel like, if he truly believes in that prophecy (which I'm unsure about since he never actually brought it up) he would have made the offer to Oliver even if he had always intended to name Nyssa as his successor. Again, though, that's assuming he puts as much stock into the prophecy as Malcolm says he does.
At the same time, I don't understand why he'd name someone like Oliver to be his successor at all in the absence of a prophecy. Oliver's just as conflicted by his emotions as Nyssa is.

"Ra's had grown so rich, he wanted to retire. He took me to Nanda Parbat and he told me his secret. 'I am not Ra's al Ghul, he said. 'My name is Ryan; I inherited the title from the previous Ra's al Ghul, just as you will inherit it from me. The man I inherited it from is not the real Ra's al Ghul either. His name was Cummerbund. The real Ra's has been retired 15 years and living like a king in Patagonia."
2

It says something about the state of Starling City that the sudden appearance of a sword wielding female ninja in the middle of a gangster assault on a police precinct draws absolutely no surprise from anyone involved.
9

Between Starling and Central City, you'd have to think real estate would be pretty cheap.
1

Not as cheap as Gotham. That place has all the real killers.

That knock on the door at the end had me thinking Robin, i mean Roy, was going to get kidnapped by Ubu

Well we've got our first appearance of a Lazuras Pit, that was nice. This whole Ra's impersonating the Arrow has got nervous for Captain Lance though. Killing him would be a very fast way to turn the cops and then the city against Oliver
1

Won't happen though, because the drama from Lance hating Ollie is much more effective than the drama of a bunch of random cops thinking he killed the Captain.
Now kidnapping and torture that Lance eventually escapes from, on the other hand...
3

Arrow through the knee?
2

Lance's death is long overdue. I've been expecting it since season 1. I don't think his death would bring enough shock value anymore.

Where is everyone getting their damned money from? Roy is poor, Diggle's wife supports him I guess(?), Ollie's bankrupt... Only the women on this show have jobs!
1

"Only the women on this show have jobs!"
And they're still paid less than the men!
2

Ollie is apparently still a millionaire so probably there.

I'm sure Roy is hustling.
*coughs*
1

Felicity works?!? I dunno, Palmer lets her have a zillion days off.
Felicity: "OhMyGod! The Arr-I mean Ollie needs tech support. For his urm, iPad."
Palmer: "Sure, take a week off."

Nah. Ollie's lost his company, but he's far from bankrupt. He still probably has lots of investments. He probably also has life insurance from both of his parents.

Diggle still gets direct deposit every week for being Ollie's friend.

"My name is Oliver Queen. The Demon's Head thought he could lure me with unlimited resources, an army of ninjas, free Netfiix for life and longer tanktops for Thea. He. Was. Wrong. Because I can and will protect this city - just this one. I will protect the police - the ones still alive. I will save Thea's soul from corruption and I will save her father some money by offering him 50% off the rent."
"....Where is my backup suit? Anyone seen it?"
2

Great job keeping Celina Jade's name out of the opening credits. Total WTF moment for me. Really strong episode, looks to have set up the end of the season nicely.
1

- Anyone looking forward to scenes of Nyssa *ahem* training Laurel to fight? The look on Nyssa's face when she said she had nothing else to do makes me think she has other things in mind. In case you haven't figured it out, I am totally shipping Nyssarel.
- So I guess Lucius Lyon isn't the only homophobic non approving father on prime time TV.
- The man sewed his mouth shut because cops beat a confession out of him? Really?
- Shado is alive? I need an explanation.
- Does Thea have any shirts that cover her belly button?
2

To your last point, I hope not!

I'm still trying to figure out how Murmur is still alive - does he squeeze a straw in between two stitches and sip some super-nutritious soup? Favorite theory for 'resurrected' Shado seen somewhere on the web: twin! (Of course - this is one soap trope Arrow hasn't used yet.) Thea wore belly button covering shirt in her first scene - it was quite shocking. Of course she was giving in to her suicidal tendencies in that scene.
1

And I guess brushing his teeth is no longer necessary. I'd hate to be around when/if his mouth gets unstitched and he says a word that begins with the letter "H".

The letter "P" would seem far more unpleasant...

"Does Thea have any shirts that cover her belly button?" God, I hope not.

So my friends and I refer to the show as "Sad Abs" because of a scene in the pilot where Ollie frowns, shirtless at a mirror. It's pretty delightful that Thea and her midriff-baring and sulking have continued the proud Sad Abs tradition.
1

Nyssa and Laurel---interesting!

The more I watch this Ras al-Ghul storyline, the more I wonder why they couldn't just use the Outsiders instead of the League of Assassins.

Merlyn wouldn't have been trained by the Outsiders. Merlyn wouldn't be fleeing from the Outsiders, and wanted Ollie to fight the outsiders to erase a blood debt. Ollie wouldn't have moral qualms against joining the Outsiders. Thea wouldn't have sold Merlyn out to the Outsiders, hoping to get him killed. The Outsiders wouldn't threaten to destroy everyone and everything to get Ollie to join them.

Don't see how you came to any of those conclusions. Are we talking about the same Outsiders?

I'm talking about the DC Outsiders. Which ones are you talking about?

I just thought of something else. Thea's knife came from out of nowhere. When she was walking over to Malcolm, both her hands were empty.

Malcolm taught her well.
2

The Magician's daughter knows a trick or two.
1

While I appreciate the strides they've made with Laurel's character it was funny as hell to see her get dummy rocked like four or fives in her fight with Nyssa
1

Sara should be Ra's al-Ghul.
1

Could they dunk her corpse into the Lazarus pit?

I dunno but she's alive in the spin off.

That candlelit Lazarus Jacuzzi. I half-expected Ra's to play some Barry White.
1

Though I was very happy to hear al-Khi?r (?????? ?????) mentioned regarding the Lazarus Pit/Fountain of Youth, Ra's didn't quite get it right. He is mentioned in the Koran, but not in that context: the legend is, he was Alexander the Great's cook, who found the Fountain when Alexander failed to.
Fascinating myth figure: the closest thing Islam has to a trickster-god, roughly parallel with the likes of Anansi or High John the Conqueror.

In the last scene with Ollie and the Captain (band name!), as Ollie says he doesn't do it for the thanks, shots and sails up to the mist, I imagined him saying 'This is why I do it!'
It annoyed me that immediately after scourging himself emotionally for lying and keeping secrets from Captain Lance to Felicity, he then keeps secrets from Felicity! Of all freaking people!
I'm just gonna drop my favorite image from last weekend's Indy Comic Con.
The Arrow Family

I was right, lo these many weeks ago, that Ra's wanted Oliver to replace him. So I will make this bold statement: Sarah's death was part of an elaborate set up to convince Oliver to become Ra's, she is not really dead, and when Oliver finds this out, it will lead to the final battle between him and Ra's.
1

I would love that resolution.

#############

Full disclosure: when I first saw Shado tonight, I didn't understand why Ollie was so surprised.
"This is a flashback, she's not even dead yet."
And then I died for a second, I think, because my brain must have literally stopped working in order for me to think that.
12

Does anybody else think that the writers mistakenly thought that Shado randomly turning up was going to blow our minds, at all? I can't have been the only one to be a bit "meh" about it?

I think that was supposed to be the big reveal of the night's flashbacks, but I found the flashbacks to be sort of annoying distractions that detracted from the main story.
3

I think the writers did too, since they each lasted like 30 seconds

It blew my mind (but that was back when I saw it in the Paley Fest trailer)

I think I black out during the flashbacks this season...

Oliver, couldn't you have left Malcolm in your fancy supermax prison on an island?
5

Keep your friends close and your enemies sharing a fridge and a bathroom.
15

I'd watch the ***** out of a sitcom where Slade, Malcolm, and Harrison Wells are all roommates.
17

Captain Cold can be their Newman.
5

... I have that issue of Catwoman.

Hello, Snart.
3

There is that panel of Deathstroke & Merlyn at the watercooler at the beginning of Identity Crisis.
"Hey, was that you on that motorcade thing?"
"They had arrows in the back of their necks, didn't they."
7

That doesn't sound like Deathstroke. I just can't picture him saying "Hey"
1

Just think: Ollie has enough people to take down Slade, and whoever else, by pig-piling on their enemy. Why not just do that to Ra's? It worked in Identity Crisis.
1

Slade, Capt. Boomerang, and Merlyn, stuck in a prison together. "Seriously, Dark Archer? That's what you call yourself?" "Oh, like you're one to talk, Captain Boomerang." "Why am I missing an eye instead of both ears right now?"
6

The Darcher strikes again.
(Sounds like a Dickens character)

Maybe have to let him recover from his injuries first, then lock him in "supermax" prison

This whole Malcolm storyline has ruined most of this season in my opinion, but that sly, proud grin he had when Thea told Oliver she wanted to slit his throat made his presence (mostly) worthwhile for me.
10

I think the best part of the episode was Ollie's little snarl when Felicity's phone went off during their special moment. I was so ready for a TDKR reference there..
"So that's what that feels like.."
14

I think you mean a Kingdom Come reference.

He so subtly moved his upper lip that I was like, "Did he snarl, surely not.." yet here we are.
1

It was a snarlito.
2

It's a backdoor pilot for the 20th Arrow spinnoff: Snarlito's Way
1

Ra'rrow - most age inappropriate cosplay ever?
7

Most unintentionally funny ending.
1

YAS, QUEEN!
3

Well, it's good to be back on a Queen.
-Merlyn, approving of his new bed.
5

Or remembering back in time to Thea's age plus forty weeks...
5

Oh, oh yeah. That's why I fell in love with Felicity way back when. She and Oliver used to have really sweet chemistry.
Anyway. That was a lot of fun. The Lazarus Pit reveal being so "whatevs" was an interesting take.
8

There's something hilariously endearing about a deadly ***** assassin being so unused to normal social situations that she asks Laurel to hang out as if they were eight year olds.
"So, um, our daddies are jerks and I was crushing on your sister. Wanna hang out and play ninja?"
28

That's something outta Secret Six!
4

I was kind of expecting her to offer some seriously bad advice.
"When my father was angry with me, I would bring him the severed head of one of his foes. Have you tried that?"
26

It's exactly the type of fish-out-of-water scenario I'd hoped the show would pursue. Comedy gold.

If only Oliver had a List of the evil people who control the city, then he could really make a difference instead of chasing bank robbers.
8

I mean, Thea and Roy getting back together was sweet and all. But I just couldn't help but notice during that sequence that the jeans Roy was wearing were tighter than Thea's.
3

As an actor, Colton Haynes has one great talent, and damn if he isn't going to flaunt it.
10

If I looked like that you can be sure that I'd be wearing those jeans and very little else on a near-daily basis.
4

OK, this season has been pretty terrible, and this episode wasn't the most exciting one, but it was necessary. It firmly gives the characters a sense of direction and actually treats them as characters rather than plot devices. At least this season has done good work in developing the weaker characters (Laurel, Roy, Thea), and now Ollie is back on track as well. But now that everything is set in place, I hope the show runners don't screw it up again, and this season goes on a high note.
8

Your comment sums up my feelings about this season much more succinctly than I could; thank you!
1

I've been struggling with that too. First I was blindly defending the season, then I gave up and started throwing hate comments around, this episode gave me closure. I certainly understand why the show runners did what they did, they probably didn't want or make this show look smaller compared to their flashy new show, but this show doesn't need to massively up the stakes to make me happy, I love this show because of it's characters, because of the action and the cheesiness, and I'm glad it's back to where it used to be ??
1

"Willa Holland has grown so much in the role of Thea over the years" yes right out of her tops..thank you god..
Has anybody seen the salmon ladder lately or should we place a photo on milk cartons by now?
7

It's really annoying to me that Oliver kept ignoring (and omitting) the part about how he would have the power to transfer his no-kill rule to the entire League, which would be a *good in itself* even regardless of whatever he did with all of those soldiers. And it's also pretty irritating that it hasn't seemed to occur to him that he can use part of the League to constantly police his city; it's not like he'd have to abandon it to become Ra's—he'd just be expanding.
This was an enjoyable episode, but it needed to provide a good reason for Oliver to turn Ra's down; it failed to do so.
9

Except Ollie didn't believe Ra's about being able to de-assassin the League of Assassins. I think he was pretty clearly thinking of Lord Acton's old maxim about power and corruption. And possibly also his other line about secrecy and justice.
3

I didn't see any indication that he didn't believe him. Did he say as much? It kind of stands to reason that the venerated, somewhat-immortal leader of the League would be capable of dictating basic policy and procedure.
1

"If you wish them to renounce killing as you did, that will be done."
"I doubt that."
... Seems a pretty clear indication of doubt to me.
6

I thought Ra's then countered with basically what I said about how, duh, if you're in charge what you say will be law.
I dunno. If the show wanted to dismiss that it needed to try harder.
1

I do at least appreciate that a lot of Oliver's self-doubt came from the release of all those criminals and the loss of all their case files and evidence that occurred while he was gone/dead. That's fitting because his absence allowed that threat to his legacy to be carried out—all he had accomplished undone—and it would have been a shame if that extremely important thing had been forgotten as just a minor plot detail now that he's returned.
3

Oliver was depressed thinking about all the criminals who escaped, but then he remembered he still had something to live for: go home and protect Merlyn!
3

And using the League to constantly police the city doesn't seem like a terrible idea to you? Or at least an idea that could (and, this being a comic show, would) go terribly wrong?

If you refashion the League into an anti-crime police force that's just an extension of what Team Arrow does now, then what's the problem?
1

At this rate there's going to be no police left in that City anyway. A group of highly trained Ninjas taking orders from Ollie (or Lance) may not be such as bad idea.

Cue the montage, as Ollie writes the new Rules of the League on a whiteboard. (Theme from "The Great Escape" plays in background.)
1. NO KILLING
[Assassins sent on mission. Hilarity ensues.] 2. NO MAIMING
[mission] 3. NO HOSTAGES
[mission] 4. NO TORTURE
[mission] 5. SEE APPENDIX A REGARDING "ACTIONS THAT COUNT AS TORTURE".
(And so on.)

############

Felicity: *hears about villain with his mouth sewn shut* If only I had know that was a possibility...
10

"I wonder what Lynch will see, when he finds TAO in his cell. With that look on his face. When he finally realized I was smart enough to disarm him properly..."
1

What was the point of the mouth sewn shut? I can guess that was from the comics, but it was completely useless: hardly ever mentioned, and not really explained. Just like Brick and his random immunity to bullets.
The reviewer of Gotham rightly complains all the time about tone whiplash, but you could say the same about Arrow now. It jumps from gritty Nolan Batman to cartoon magic pool from one scene to the next.
2

I'm pretty sure Murmur was a Flash villain and nothing more than a crazy serial killer. I actualyl liked Arrow's portrayal of him.
1

They theorized it was an extreme overreaction to being beaten into confessing to a crime he didn't commit. I mean you can see the logic:talking is what got him locked away, ergo he removes from himself the ability to talk. Obviously the ordeal caused him to have a psychotic break and he further decided that he would get revenge on all the cops who put him away (and every other cop ever).
It didn't really serve a purpose or make him stronger or anything, but it was just a piece of character work.
Oh wait, there was also that whole bit about sewing your mouth shut giving you more focus and what not
1

Buckminster Fuller once went a full year withoutt talking. It's supposed to put the mind in a more creative, contemplative place. It's why monks take a vow of silence.

This was a pretty good episode. Oliver wasn't as stubborn as he usually is.
Laurel is getting better. I taped "Agents of SHIELD" last night and noticed though how much better Adrianne Palicki is fighting with her sticks compared to Katie Cassidy. I hope Nyssa does train her so she could potentially be as good.
8

Potentially? Dude it's Black Canary when Laurel reaches her full potential she'll be better than Oliver. She'l be at Batman's level.
2

Well, certainly, but we want Katie Cassidy to also be so good. Her acting is top notch. Her stunt work is too early to be determined.
7

The parts of her face that can still move have moved more this season, to be sure...

Well, I'm not sure she'll get to have Lady Shiva training in this show.
But if she did...

Oh God that'd be sweet.
1

It's on my list of things I would most want to see.

Well that's because Adrianne Palicki actually looks like she could beat the ***** out of you whereas Katie Cassidy doesn't? Not to worry, Arrow will try and change this by having her train with Nyssa for a few episodes.
7

Katie Cassidy has improved greatly, especially in the action scenes, but Adrienne Palicki, like Caity Lotz, is just made to be a kickass superhero babe.

Tyra is so, so far above Lotz in that department (as well as, obviously, in the acting department).

That may be part of it, but that's not the main reason. It's the choreography. But it's deliberate. At this point, Laurel is supposed to be pretty *****. It's not like Wildcat trained her to use those sticks anyway
1

########
How long does it take to get to Nanda Parbat? I swear to God Nyssa was arguing with Ra's there, and returned to Starling City in like the same day.
14

It's been that way all series long...there's like a direct high speed rail connection between Nanda Parbat and Starling City. Chunnel, eat your heart out.
9

I suppose it could be one of those mystical nexus points like Slaughter Swamp or the Rock of Eternity that exists simultaneously in multiple points.
(Come to think of it, Richard Dragon never seemed to take much time getting between Nanda Parbat and his cabin in Canada.)

Nanda Parbat is actually Detroit.
15

Nanda Parbat is eminently safer. At least they don't pretend the entire place isn't trying to kill you.
9

Nothing dies in Nanda Parbat. Not even the auto industry.
6

Nanda Parbat took care of its spontaneous house fire problem in the '90s.
8

when Ollie let her go, he just basically says "okay, see ya, bye" and she just wanders off like she knows there's another train leaving in the next hour
2

That police station must be the least secure place in the city.
9

No man the Foundry.
1

No that's near Laurel.
4

Especially her apartment during season one.
5

OH HEY SPECULATION CORNER:
So what's the deal with that Flash/Arrow spin-off? For me, obviously, the glorious return of Caity Lotz (as Sara? as someone new? shut up, it's Sara) peaks my interest. It's interesting (or baffling) that Berlanti and Company are working on this in addition to Supergirl, which we don't even know will exist in the Arrowverse. What's the deal, terrifyingly productive superhuman television producers?
Thoughts?
9

Well its Palmer, Heatwave, The Professor part of Caitlan's boyfriend and Caity are confirmed. Seems like a League of justice type, which is fine cause I don't see Old Superman being able to carry a show on his own.
2

I hope they either go Brave & the Bold Rotating Teamups or a JLI sitcom with Ollie & Firestorm re-creating the famous Batman/Green Lantern "One Punch".
5

I'm thinking some kind of rotating cast scenario makes the most sense.
1

Captain Cold, too.

I'm not very well versed in DC's alternate universe theory, besides Golden Age heroes having their own universe, but could it be alternate reality stories?
That, or Brave and the Bold, like charlessage said.
2

I feel that a show set in an alternative universe, while awesome, would undercut DC, especially since it will be CW show. Confusing swaths a viewers can't help in the long run.
4

Not discussed is whether terrifyingly productive superhuman television producers can pull all of this stuff when they're big and first show, Arrow, is kind of a mess right now. Possibly because they were working on the Flash at the same time
3

And about 20 spin-offs. If at least they could leave Arrow alone for a while and not use season 4 to launch yet another series (see: Ray Palmer's "arc" this year), maybe they could come up with a decent plot.
1

I can't be the only one who's completely unconvinced by the ability of Ray to anchor his own show, can I? As much as I like Brandon Routh, Ray as a character is really not that interesting: tragic backstory tick, but otherwise it's "rich white boy privilege allows me to almost blow up an entire building trying to build a suit because ***** other people", Tony Stark-wannabe without the charm and with the added creepiness and stalker tendencies of a 50 Shades of Grey knock-off Christian Grey.
Also, can we have at least one conversation between Ray and Felicity without him somehow trying to financially reward her with something just for helping him? Please?
5

But he would have done that anyway!
...probably
4

Ugh, it's too much.
1

I want a mix in tone between Arrow and Flash. That is to say a mixture of head cracking and wise cracking.
3

Honestly my worry is the plotting because even with just two shows (Arrow, Flash) the writers are already having trouble preventing the obvious comparisons between the two shows' respective love triangles (Oliver-Laurel-Tommy and Eddie-Iris-Barry). Not to mention Ray, the third superhero seemed like a combination of Barry and Oliver with a sidedash of Tony Stark genius. The clear difficulties in differentiating the shows and making each one unique instead of just a rehash it a main worry I have.
1

It's like all those CSI teams that look like Xeroxes.
2

I agree with all of the above: I'm not really sure what they're going for, I cannot for the life of me see how Cold and Heatwave fit into it as main characters, and the Caity Lotz thing is REALLY confusing: if she's playing Sara again, the reasoning for not having her back in Arrow rather than on this show is going to have to be really convoluted.
1

Maybe she clawed her way out of the grave but was too embarrassed to go face Oliver because she died of like, arrows to the gut but MAGICAL OLIVER survives a stomach to the gut and drop off a cliff!
Seriously though I LOVE Sara but if they're not going to have a logical and clear explanation for her return I'd rather they drop it instead of forcibly cramming her into the spinoff.
2

I'd forcibly cram into her spinoff!
That came out darker than intended.

He's not Barry/Oliver.
He's just Ted Kord.
And it's awesome.

It's such an odd mix of people for regulars. I think Captain Cold & Heat Wave work as recurring villains but I don't know that I want them as main characters. I also don't really want them to bring back Sara. I also don't understand why we only half half of Firestorm.
I'm already watching Arrow & The Flash. I also watch Gotham & SHIELD and I just don't know that I'd watch a fifth show in that genre on a weekly basis.

Supergirl existing in the same universe would cause MASSIVE continuity problems, since apparently Superman is already an established hero there. And if that was the case then you know SOMEONE would have mentioned it on one of these shows and people wouldn't have been so freaked out by the existence of the Flash and calling him "The Impossible" etc.
But, even if they're not in the same universe they can still do a crossover by having some interdimensional travel involved. a metahuman with the ability to create interdimensional portals (like what happened to the team in All-New X-Men). Or maybe after mastering the Time Travel thing, Barry runs SO FREAKING FAST!!!!!! that he breaks the dimensional barrier as well. Hilarity ensues.
1

While it probably won't happen, they could go for the old-style, Golden/Silver Age style shared world where yes, any character can appear in any other's story (or in the team-up book) and writers can reference those events if they make a positive choice to, but each hero's story is self-contained and not inherently beholden to what happens in another's. So nobody sweats the fact that there are three incompatible Atlantises, seven different kinds of Martians, and people don't believe in ghosts despite there being one on a nationally famous superteam.
(Even with tighter continuity, we still have to ignore the question of why Superman doesn't take a day off and clean up Gotham for Batman, or why when he's outnumbered and outgunned Nightwing never remembers he has Wally West and Donna Troy in his phone contacts.)
(If TV took crossovers=common universe as seriously as comics, then, for example, the George Reeves Superman existed in the same universe as Veronica Mars and M*A*S*H.)

Let us all rejoice at the return of the true hero of this show: snarky Felicity Smoak.
12

The true hero of the show never appeared (unless it was in the background): Salmon Ladder.
18

Salmon Ladder: "You know why I'm here."
*Arrow title card/intro music plays*
8

They need to upgrade Salmon Ladder so it can move around on its own, like TARS and CASE in Interstellar...
9

It's uncomfortable because it feels like Salmon Ladder was melted down for parts to make Impromptu Arrow Cave Hostage Cell.
3

It's possible Verdant had a cage, if it's "that" kind of place.
7

Knowing both Roy and Thea - which I don't, cuz they fictional - Verdant would totally have that.
4

Chase would totally suggest it, both as a sleazy DJ and as a spy.
3

And as a dead guy!
...wait.

Okay, and now I'm upset that we didn't get a scene where Nyssa attempts to escape and accidentally activates the in-cage glitter spray.
4

This is seriously becoming an issue for me. Do they want me to turn elsewhere for my salmon ladder fix? Do they?
1

######################
Were is Roy getting all this money from? He drives a badass car, has his own place which looks kinda nice (at least the inside, the CW seems to think making it messy doesn't mean it isn't nice) and I went to the store the other day and hoodies are kind of expensive now. He must own that "really ***** dive bar" Barry met Linda at in Central City to be so poor.
7

Roy still lives in that one room house dump in the Glades. I cant remember where he got the car.
3

He probably stole it?
1

He's being scouted for a corporate sponsored super-team. But if the regulatory committee finds out about the car, he'll be ineligible, so don't tell anyone.

Roy still lives in the same slum house he had when we first saw him.
The car, however, I assume he paid for with his Ambercrombie ads (Or, in my fantasies, doing certain adult films)
11

XY Magazine residuals.
1

The inside of this slum house is pretty nice and he at least rents his own place which costs money. There is an alleged ***** erotic something with Colton Hayes so that should make your day.

Ray Horper in
"Parkour Park *****"
Now available on DVD, BluRay and Digital Download
2

And don't miss the exciting follow up
"Harp-core Parkour"
In (select) theaters next May
1

Lots of money to be made in parkour.
He's sort of a freelance freerunner.
9

If he had a dollar for every time he flipped, he could own the Queen mansion.
7

'If he had a dollar for every time he f***ed, he could own the Queen mansion'

Roy enters Parkour competitions during his free time and wins big money.
12

Also a male escort.

I thought Roy stole that car, and his decent apartment is in the Glades where you would certainly expect property values/ rent to be insanely low.
6

Just wait until gentrification hits.
4

I kind of got the sense that he's either a squatter or his mom abandoned him there.
1

Wait, where was Shado? I ... sometimes I fast forward through bits.

tail end of the flashback

Every second Katrina Law is on my screen is a blessing. I need Nyssa as a regular badly.
12

Second. The loss of Sara (soon to return by the sheer force of my will alone, I'm convinced) and whatever happened to Felicity this season, we need more strong women. Nyssa also provides a fun "fish out of water" approach to Starling.
9

she'll be Team Arrow's Ben Wyatt
1

She'll wear a Letters to Cleo t-shirt?
1

I would love that, to be fair.
1

I will put up with multiple Laurel training scenes if they involve Katrina Law.
Especially if Laurel introduces Nyssa to modern workout clothing.
7

We talking yoga pants and sport bras? Is there a kickstarter?
1

Fishnets. C'mon.

Yes.. More Nyssa!! The only thing that tops Nyssa scenes are Thea swordfighting scenes. And I'm guessing we are done with those. I'm a sucker for girl swordfighting scenes. Bring back Katana also.
5

I want Katana as a regular, badly. Nyssa would work, too. Or, better yet, both.
5

###

Kind of like the weirdly weird *****-shaming subtext between Nyssa and Ra's. It's written like she thinks he disapproved of her love for Sara, but he was simply disappointed she opened herself up to vulnerability, regardless of gender.
Am I misreading their character interactions?
9

Yeah, I'm finding it hard whether he's mad she fell for a woman, or because she fell for someone like Sara, who he flat out states numerous times he never liked.
3

I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that Sara was a woman. I think it was because she was an outsider.
8

Wait, now the Outsiders are involved?
4

DAMN YOU, GEO-FORCE!!! *shakes fist*
(Technically Katana IS involved, of course)
2

Hey, Brion Markov was in Season 1, Katana's shown up and Stagg Industries is in play. Now we need Black Lightning (or Black Vulcan if the CW is too cheap to pay Tony Isabella royalties.)
4

They had better get Sinbad to play him.
1

Or, if they're going with Vulcan, Phil LaMarr...
In his pants.
2

I wanted Metamorpho sooooo bad!
1

-Gerard Way.
Get it?

Stay gold, Ponyboy!
3

... What do you think his overall plan was?

I think Ra's is making it so Oliver feels like he is going to be an outcast in his own city and then have to be the successor.
I thought Ra's speech was similar to The Joker's speech in The Dark Knight trying to convince Batman that he won't be wanted: " They need you right now, but when they don't, they'll cast you out—like a leper."
3

Oh, that's on the Villain Recruitment Speech bingo card:
"We're not so different" is the free space, then you've got "Join me or die", "you can't imagine the power of the dark side", "work for me and your loved ones are safe", "we're the exceptional ones", "the public will turn on you", "you've fought us so long you became us", "you're just a killer whose found an acceptable target" and my personal favorite: "We have dental."
17

No "all your base are belong to us"?
2

I was always partial to Thulsa Doom's line: "My child, you have come to me, my son. For who now is your father if it is not me? I am the wellspring from which you flow. When I am gone, you will have never been. What would your world be, without me? My son."
2

Contemplate this on the Salmon Ladder Of Woe.

I wanted to say it...
1

See, I think you're right. But that Nyssa doesn't agree with that assessment, believing it to be a gender/cultural issue.
2

As the head of the League of Assassins LGBT Committee, she should know
3

Nyssa's love (and obsession) with Sara proved to be her biggest weakness, and since Ra's only cares about a warriors worth, any sort of weakness is viewed as a mistake.
Not because of the type of relationship, but because of the relationship itself.
3

I think there's two reasons for his disapproval: 1). Nyssa fell in love, and being in love leaves you vulnerable and 2). Sara was an outsider.
11

I don't buy the outsider thing because Oliver is also an outsider but he's clearly ok offering him the seat of the throne. But I do agree with the vulnerable angle
4

Well like Maseo said, Ra's is OK with Oliver and has anointed him as his heir because he survived his sword.
1

And he survived his sword because Maseo saved him. Which is something nobody seems to be mentioning
2

Well, he survived being stabbed through the chest + falling off a cliff + waiting in the snow for three days. Oliver did all the hard work.
5

Good bloody point! What happened to that whole "Maseo Ras is going to kill you for helping me" plotline? They just dropped it!

Well everyone was also wrong that the League would hold Thea responsible for firing the arrows that killed Thea, which Nyssa immediately said would not be "justice." The League works in mysterious ways it seems.

Wasn't "everyone" basically "known liar and manipulator Malcolm Merlyn, whom everyone believed for some reason"?

That was assuming Ra's still wanted Ollie dead. And that is assuming Ra's even knows.

I don't think it was simply that she was an outsider, but he says he could tell from Sara's personality that she would one day leave them, which she did. Unlike some of the other pilgrims that join them I guess (who they welcome with open arms) she was not fully loyal to the cause, and he could tell. Remember Ra's values fealty above all else after all.
Also keep in mind that both of the people we know who left the league, are people who Nyssa brought in (Malcolm and Sara). So maybe Ra's is just annoyed at how bad a judge of character she seems to be.
Sidenote: Does Talia exist?

I think they're intentionally keeping it ambiguous, and it's actually a pretty fascinating angle. Bring Nyssa closer to Team Arrow and antagonistic to her father is obviously a big plus with this show, but providing a "unsupportive homophobic parent" angle in the middle of a ninja assassin superhero saga is just plain delightful.
12

Definitely a fascinating subplot. Thing is, Ra's is really just a ***** parent, solely fixated on the sport and techniques of killing. Nyssa could fall in love with Bruce Wayne Oliver Queen and he would probably disapprove.
People have nailed the dual points of Outsider/Weakness, so if Ra's has no feelings on homosexuality, the whole angle makes Nyssa out to be paranoid. I hope for and expect a better resolution than that
3

Granted, that's ENTIRELY what Batman: Death and the Maidens was about.

Well textually it's all about her falling in love with a fellow assassin at all. Subtextually there's a definite sense of her feeling judged for her sexuality... but they're part of a massively different culture, so in theory inflections of the latter could just be indicative of the former. Either way it's very effectively conveying her sense of her father's disappointment. Whether it's subtext or allegory, it's working.
4

It's probably that Sara fell for someone who was an outsider who made multiple attempts to flee from the League. Ra's clearly does not take that well. Doubt it has anything to do with gender. Although what DOES piss me off is that Oliver was in love with Sara too but apparently he's still "worthy"

Because Ollie is an outsider unfamiliar with the ways of the league. Ra's knows he still needs a lot of work. Nyssa should have known better.

#############

Can I just say how much fun Laurel has been this season? Sarcastic, *****-kicking, rookie fighter Laurel is my fave Laurel (second only to wine bottle-tossing mess Laurel cuz that ***** was funny).
16

Sure, feel free.
Aside from Thea, who has improved and developed leaps and bounds over the second part of the season, Laurel has actually progressed.
She's still getting more screen time than better characters I'd prefer to see, notably Diggle, Capt. Lance and Thea. But hey, she's better than Roy!
6

*Roy makes confused Roy face, parkours*
16

*Roy makes a ham sandwich, parkours*
10

"Roy takes a job as a window washer, parkours"
9

*Roy parkours, parkours*
9

Was waiting to see that one as I scrolled through these. Bravo.

*Roy parks cars as a parking valet, parkours*
3

Hey, give Roy credit. For once he fought Nyssa, and she was the one who got knock-out darted.
After she'd beaten him into the floor, of course. But that was fun to watch, too.
6

He still technically won the fight. Which I think makes him the only person to beat Nyssa on this show.
4

Oliver beat her too? Honestly it's hard to believe either way Nyssa was born and bred a member of the League she's been training since she was a kid but noooo she has to get beaten by Roy and Oliver, neither of whom have trained for more than eight years. It's absurd.

Yeah, I expected Nyssa to wipe the floor with everyone in that room, so it was surprising that Roy got the drop on her.
1

One of the Fab Five Teen Titans doesn't go down that easily.
1

Let's note something else about this scene, too; no unnecessary flips at all! Insane!

I'm really happy that Laurel is actually contributing to the plot, making movements as a character, and doing things in general.
Which of course happened once the romance subplot with her died.
Can't wait for Iris to do the same (or die)
8

Your ship has failed this show, find a new plot or die!
3

I still want Ted Grant in a god damn costume. Maybe he has the salmon ladder on loan right now.
6

I want to know if he's alive.
1

Me too! However, I imagine Laurel would be a bit more cut up if he'd died and probably gone on another revenge bender.
5

I think I heard he's in a different show now, and that's why he got his ***** kicked so hard by Brick? Don't quote me on that though. . .

And yet dropping the romance side of her and Ollie's relationship has actually increased their romantic chemistry. I'd actually buy the two of them as a couple (again) more than pretty much anyone else on the show now.
1

I would literally prefer any other two characters on the show together romantically to Oliver and Laurel. At this point I think they are both fine with other people, even Laurel, just not together.

Well, who doesn't ship Roy/Digg?

Dig-anybody really. Especially with Felicity sort of all over the place this season he has been the rock.

Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Well I've instituted a house drinking game that when ever Laurel shows up in the arrow cave for no reason but to ***** at Ollie we do shots. It makes her almost bearable.
8

I'm the opposite. Every time Laurel gives Ollie ***** in the Arrowcave, it's because Felicity is too busy crying and Roy and Diggle are too busy being spineless to call Ollie on his bullshit.
7

One of these days Oliver is going to figure out how to change the password on the door. One of these days!
3

apparently, havig "arrow" as a password isn't working for him. The Challenge Season 26, Episode 14 Online
1

There was that guy a few eps back (the one who freed all the villains Arrow Team caught while Oliver was "dead) whom Dig/Roy couldn't take down with arrows or bullets. And then Laurel brought him down with a kick to the nuts. That was gold.
1

############
This was a good episode but man...nothing can beat that beautiful masterpiece that was the latest Flash episodes.
23

Next episode, Ollie arrows through time .
11

Diggle reveals that he's from the future.
10

Or from Space, as a member of a rainbow colored corps
11

That's racist.
8

"This arrow looks familiar, Ollie... but how?"
It went so fast it attained the speedforce.
9

Ra's al Ghul appears in his homemade costume; "IT WAS ME, OLLIE! I WAS THE ONE WHO WENT AROUND RUINING YOUR REPUTATION!"
7

The Reverse Arrow?
He shoots his arrows with the fletchings forward.
9

"I'm nothing like the Arrow. You might say I'm...the opposite."
"What's the opposite of archery?"
"...Shut up."
17

A gun?
Or perhaps someone using arrows as a melee weapon?
3

Someone using a gun as a melee weapon.

All those dead bodies Ollie racked up in the first season and a half?
2

Red Dart!
5

A canon GA villain they haven't used yet. Huh. Actually, Lemire's recent run made Red Dart and Killer Moth plausible, semi-decent villains. They should bring them in.

This comment has made up for all the annoying niggles that I had with this episode of Arrow: thank you.

The opposite of archery is, of course, parkour.

That am no Bizarro Green Arrow.
4

He actually took it from Ollie when he captured him, and then let him go.

I thought time's arrow was a property of entropy alone.
1

and a mediocre Star Trek TNG episode...
5

At best.

I really want a cross over episode where Barry brings back Ollie's dad, Moria, Tommy, and Sarah through time travel and watch Oliver just get more and more grumpy cat cause he owes Barry, who's just got that cheshire grin on his face the whole time
8

Then the universe collapses into a Flashpoint Paradox.
1

The time travel means there's a chance in hell I can have an entire show of Moira just getting drunk at Casa Queen and making catty remarks at various cast members. I dare you to argue against that.
15

"They buried you in THAT, Sara?" Bette Davis style of course.
4

To be fair, she probably doesn't know anyone's name.
"Who are you again? My son? I used to have a son, his name was Ali? Alister? Alastor? Something like that. I'm not good with names."
2

I think yesterday's Flash episode was so good, it would be tough for this Arrow episode to top it.
2

And don't forget the pure majesty that is Kyle MacLachlan on Agents of SHIELD.
6

Nothing that uses time travel to erase what happened in 90% of the episode can be a masterpiece.
1

And yet, here we are.
4

Agreed. No consequence, reset button, boo.
Oh, and terrible love quadrangle. Which will be resetted. Great.
1
############ ›

So I guess its just inevitable that Nyssa is going to get the hots for Laurel cause after the all the writers are all bout making sure everyone watching knows that Laurel was always the true protector of the family and the real Black Canary. ugh
3

She's doing a Reverse-Ollie! Start with Sara, then move onto Laurel.
14

I just hope it means Oliver and Nyssa share stories over hotdogs and beer.
2

I hope that doesn't happen. It completely spits on Sara if they pair Nyssa up with Laurel in any way that isn't platonic.
7

They would never.

Yeah no one thought they would disrespect Nyssa to the extent of having Ra's make Oliver his heir either

Well, they should have. Her comics counterpart got sent to a Nazi concentration camp because Ras disapproved.

Though think how interestingly awkward it will be if Sara comes back to life and finds out that Laurel is sleeping with Nyssa, too.
4

Well, that's what Sara gets for sleeping with Ollie!
That, and dead. A couple times. That usually comes with the territory as well.
3

Why? I'm not saying now but down the line, I actually wouldn't mind Nyssa and Laurel falling in love with each other.
3

...or just banging one out.
2

"Wear the wig."

After last night's The Flash Arrow is just becoming a painful boil that needs Lanced. Ha Ha.
5

I just think that yesterday's episode was so good, that it would be hard for tonight's episode to top it. It wasn't necessarily bad.
3

Yesterday's episode was supposed to precede Nanda Parbat and leave fans of both shows on breaks with crazy cliffhangers.
2

Oh, he got Lanced. Big time.

The flashbacks this season have been the weakest point of a weak season.
"Ollie and Son" is bottom of the barrel. Next week, can we just warp to stubbly Oliver fighting Chechens on behalf of the Russian Mob?
7

Yeah, nothing puts me off quicker than "child actor" being a thing I have to deal with, especially on an action show.
8

What really puts me off this kid in particular is just pronounced his American accent is. . .

Do you know anyone from Hong Kong? Because a lot of them have pretty much perfect American accents.
1

Ah, I didn't know that! Thanks for informing me, that's quite interesting!

Yeah, no problem. In Hong Kong, it's actually looked down upon to have a Chinese accent. It's considered to be a sign of a lack of education.
1

it's only a matter of time before Oliver's real son shows up...

I disagree. I have been liking the flashbacks ever since the show returned from the Winter Hiatus.
1

The Starling City flashback veered towards parody. I'm nonplussed by anything that goes on in Hong Kong, sort of just waiting for an Amanda Waller heel turn.
5

I don't know, I could have done with a few more episodes of Flashback!Ollie stalking Thea and just murdering everyone who sells her drugs.
5

The flashbacks this season have been the weakest point of a weak season.
Sorry but Merlyn still alive, not in jail, and hanging out with the children of Robert Queen (who protect him with their lives) is the "winner".
5

they're kind of rambling plot-wise, like they don't really have a point so they'll just keep spinning something along until they figure out what that point will be. And then when they figure it out, it's just Amanda Waller trolling everyone and so then there'll be another rambling plotline until something else happens
3

Sadly, this is all true: when they said they'd "run out of story on the island" for the flashbacks, I didn't think they'd have this much of a problem when they had THE ENTIRE WORLD to create a plotline in. . .

"So what did you do in your fourth year missing?" "Well Putin recruited me to help destabalize Caucasian countries. Said I was too late to do anything in Georgia, but hey, try some other ones."
5

Writer A: "At this point, why doesn't Oliver just steal a phone and call his incredibly rich and powerful family for help?"
Writer B: "Ummmmmmmmm, honestly never thought of that. Hmmmm. Well, too late now. Let's just make a dead character come back to life again instead!"
3

Next time on Arrow:
"Wow. Shado. I thought you were dead!
...can I borrow your phone?"
1

OK the appearance of Shado in the flashbacks suddenly make continuity from Season 2 extra-complicated. I did not need that.
We are getting into "BSG" levels of writers ridiculously painting themselves into corners.
8

Hey, at least Arrow doesn't pretend to have had a whole plot all laid out all along.
2

But they only have 2.x seasons worth of material so far. Its too soon to be retconning it already.

Shado is one of the final five! Called it!
11

She's certainly a Candidate.

Nobody who died on the boat died. Nobody who died on the Island died.
13

Starling City is a place they all made together so that they could find one another again.
11

I'm just waiting for an old man in tennis shoes to start randomly appearing in visions to Oliver.
1

what about the Cheese Man?

He wears the cheese; the cheese does not wear him.

I'm thinking identical twin. Or replicant.
Or, shocking twist, that's actually Martian Manhunter - who saw Shado getting onto a train once and now walks around Hong Kong shape-shifted as her on Friday nights just so that he can feel pretty.
11

I like the idea that Martian Manhunter likes to feel pretty every now and then.
6

Me too; it makes me smile.

That would explain why one of his confirmed identities is Sailor Mars...
1

Oh hey, Ray was there. For like five seconds.
4

Last episode: RAY PALMER! SUPERHERO! HE CAN FLY!
Tonight: Ray who?
13

And still made me happy to see him.
he is so fun and charming... I swooned
7

He spent most of the first half of the season being a pushy douche, but damn if Routh doesn't make me buckle to my knees... err, my knees buckle.
4

He barely even had time to say his catch-phrase: "Up and Atom!"
19

Can't wait for the season finale when Ray's goggles do nothing.
13

"Up and at them!"
2

...Better.
1

Let's also bring the band Fall Out Boy in as well to "hint" at the comic book origins in a oddly convoluted way.

I loved how sarcastic Oliver was when calling Ray "Ray."
7

I can't think of a better way to tease a spin-off than have one of the new heroes hanging out on Arrow for almost a full season without really doing anything (except bang Felicity who needed that, to be fair).
They didn't even play his theme music for the five seconds he was on screen!
7

Admittedly, he and Felicity built a supersuit, so that's something.
1

I thought that was his Comic-con costume. Either way, it was about as entertaining as the origin story of the paint on a wall.
5

########

RIP Buttons. Daryl's lack of table manners was great. Sasha tweaking out like that is disappointing. Carol scaring that little kid is why I love her so much. Rick reaching for his gun when he saw Jessie and her husband almost got serious for a second.
8

I cracked up when Daryl wiped his face with his napkin just seconds after wiping his chin on his sleeve.
27

His slurping made me laugh. So good.
7

Sasha does have a point - it's a joke how the Alexandrians prioritize what constitutes "worst thing ever."
12

Truth.

Is it? The one woman was just worried that she'd cook a meal that Sasha didn't like, she didn't say it would be catastrophic and couldn't imagine anything worse. That was not a reasonable reaction.
2

It's a grotesquely stupid thing to say to a survivor from the outside. Even if you did not know that a person had her boyfriend partially eaten by cannibals, her relative eviscerated by the undead, it would be safe to assume that after years outside that she had seen some horrific things.
I think it's supposed to bolster Aaron's earlier point that people in Alexandria say ignorant, offensive things to new people because they truly don't understand what's going on in the outside world. It's more for the audience's benefit - we get to see a prime example of these cloistered naive people in full denial of what is going on outside.
5

I guess I don't see how wanting to make someone a meal they'll enjoy is so awful and offensive. I get the whole thing about first world problems seeming trivial to these people (someone really wanting a pasta-maker and that being really annoying to her neighbors, etc). But the woman was trying to exhibit some politeness and courtesy. That's not denial, it's basically the allegory of the cave. This much safer world IS her world. She knows there's something else out there and has therefore understandably chosen this.
It's not as if she made some insulting or minimizing joke. People who've been through terrible traumas can still have preferred foods.
3

Ah, we're talking to two different points.
It's not the meal - the offer a meal, and the small talk surrounding it, is not offensive at face value. And I don't think the woman was being offensive. My earlier comment was from our viewer perspective. I think it's stupid because I've watched several seasons of a show where hot food is a rare luxury. Also it's insensitive on a basic level because the woman offering to cook might have recognized Sasha's increasingly panicked behavior. Not as PTSD, but as "Oh, something is not clicking here. She looks like she's going to punch something or someone." She pushed when she should have calmed down her mother hen act. Again, it's like they've never met anyone from outside the walls.
In that scene, however, the idea that the "worst thing" the woman can think of is cooking the wrong food is the last straw for Sasha, who was feeling overwhelmed by the noise and the weight of people acting like the world hadn't ended. She's cracking, and the happiness she's witnessing flies in the face of the horror she's witnessed. She can't reconcile it - for her, that niceness is a lie to be attacked.
3

I understand Sasha's PTSD and how it's playing out, I just don't think the woman did anything impolite or thoughtless. She wasn't hyperbolic about the consequences of an imperfect meal, she just seemed to genuinely think it would be a great treat for someone who's been on the outside to get to actually have a luxurious indulgence, and wants to get it just right.
But yes, a more attuned and empathetic person might've read the social clues to stop pursuing this because it was far too overwhelming. And of COURSE Sasha isn't behaving rationally at the moment. It's not an easy transition.
4

I think the point was it's NOT a reasonable reaction. Sasha is traumatized. She's not stable, and she isn't ready to fit into this society until she deals with her shizz.
5

I agree with that, definitely. I was responding mostly to some sense I'd gotten from a lot of comments that the woman was being awful and Sasha was right to react that way. I thought the scene was trying to demonstrate the opposite, that she has a lot to work through before she can function in what stands for civilization.
2

Very realistic, for a purely fictional show. In real life, privileged people talk that way all the time, and it always pisses off the underprivileged.

"And you'd get cookies. Lots and lots of cookies."
I've never been more terrified for a random character on TWD, and I've never been more certain that the kid was going to end up crammed in the freezer. Carol has always been a formidable character who could take care of herself (and others), including saving the whole group from being hibachi'd, executing a cute little sociopath, and single-handedly firebombing Terminus. But that was some Brothers Grimm old-school menace right there.
26

It was one fucked up fable that could have happened....

It was sort of undercut by the fact that she obviously couldn't just get rid of him then and there, without him being missed immediately. But that was some serious shock and awe for such a sheltered, useless cookie-grubbing kid in this universe.
5

Yep- she may have known that, but he certainly didn't. What made it all the more real was that it was leveled as a threat that would hang over the kid's head, and he wouldn't know when it would actually happen (also, intimating that it would be her word versus his, and that she wasn't concerned at all that he would tell on her- just that it was going to mean that his days would be numbered).
7

###########!

I'm honestly so sick of Oliver. I want someone to just stand up to him and tell him to stop being such a hard headed buffoon. Merlyn, Laurel, and Thea can, but the writers won't let anyone do anything.
Thea is still proving she is the best character on this show now.
11

That's why I really enjoyed that final scene between Oliver and Felicity, who injected some levity and he actually seemed not broody for a change.
13

He smiled, and actually listened to someone rather than force his ways on everyone.
It was a relief
15

What's worse is that the show rarely seems to take issue with him being a dickhead and forcing his opinions on everyone usually they just let it slide
2

...except for pretty much this entire season.
1

What was great to me about the last scene is that it was the most actual comic character Green Arrow realization -- he doesn't want this broody Batman League of Assassins nonsense, he just wants to help out his city and live a simple life. Amell playing it with quiet contentment was just icing on the cake.
4

...you do realize that Batman had this exact same plotline, where Ra's recruited him, Batman said no because it's wrong, and then Ra's sought revenge?
He's going full Batman, here, not rejecting it.
1

Not really. Batman rejected Ra's pitch based on the morality, because Ra's pitch was like "join me, together we can fix the world --- by killing it!" In Arrow, Ra's pitch is much more subtle, "take it over, run it your way" and the morality is left sort of as a lingering question mark.
Oliver, at least in this ep, rejects Ra's pitch because he doesn't want the life. He doesn't want to rule anything, he doesn't want to be alone ruling anything.What he does want seemed crystal clear in that scene to me: He wants to be on Team Arrow, he wants to help Starling, and he wants a quiet little life with Felicity. He actually remains moot on the morality of the offer (his whole many paths to justice thing) and remains deeply pessimistic about life, Starling and his own accomplishments.
It was this mix of pessimism of his internal beliefs with the optimism of wanting a life helping and being with people he loves that made me think Green Arrow.
If anything, Felicity is Batman because Felicity was the one who immediately recognized that the League of Assassins and the morality of Ra's was evil and thus a basis for immediately rejecting the offer. I think Felicity would embrace the leadership part.
1

"I'd marry you to my daughter, but this one isn't interested for some reason."
1

Dude he just stopped being boneheaded.
1

If the endgame of this season is Ollie going evil, and Roy, Dig, and co. teaming up to stop him by being badass and level-headed, I'm happy. I now definitely like Roy more than Oliver.
2

They did that on Angel back in the day. I don't know that I want to see that storyline again.
1

Agreed: I'm not sure I'd ever really be able to like Oliver as a character again.
I really don't like how unlikable they're making him this season: what I'm holding on to is that they're doing this to go as dark as they possibly can, before changing things up with a lighter tone in season 4 as he evolves into more of the Ollie from the comics, kinda how he was in the first episode of this season.
. . . that's my hope, anyway.

Yeah, I'm very much seeing an Angel season 2 plot here, but with bows and arrows. I wouldn't mind. It's been a decade.

Also, Ra's' offer was straight out of Angel S5. "Infinite resources, that you can use to do good! What can go wrong?!"
2

Yeah that part also reminded me of when they took over the law firm.

And I really liked her midriff showing shirt. Her stomach is my favorite character
1

Huh? I totally didn't notice the midriff. Ha! Who am I kidding? Of course I did! We all did!

It's even worse when his "angst" is purely manufactured and idiotic. The whole ep was about him questioning his worth and what he's accomplished as the Arrow and any idiot can (and should) have answered. "You saved the city twice otherwise there would BE no city)" I cannot believe no one thought to say that. Clearly the writers think we as the audience are as idiotic as Oliver is (or can be)
1

And here's the big one: "half the city would have been levelled by a supervillian if you hadn't started your crusade; if you're questioning what you're doing at the moment, maybe you could start with "WHY DO I KEEP SAVING THAT SUPERVILLIAN AND WHY IS HE ASLEEP AT HOME ON THE COUCH"
2

Gotta agree that Oliver has gotten pretty unlikeable this season. Team Arrow really needs to stand up to him more, or maybe just form a new team without Arrow.
1

#######^

Where the hell did Oliver grapple off to after talking with Lance? Arrow-way to Heaven?
22

The Arrow-copter.
11

I always feel the same way when Spider-Man is shooting webs. It rarely looks like he's ever aiming at anything but sky, at least to me.
9

According to Grant Morrison, as a metatextual descendant of Anansi the storyteller, Spider-Man is anchoring his webbing to the panel borders.
19

Oof, that hurts my head.
1

Yessssssss, I LOVE that explanation
2

Get your mind out of the gutter!
1

Thought the same thing. He grapples directly into the sky.
Tracy Jordan: That's a metaphor!
7

he grappled onto the Arrowblimp circling the city.
4

By the looks of it.....the International Space Station?
That shot was weird. He kinda went up there but there was no there there!
2

I saw kind of a bright light in the background; thought maybe it signified a tall building? I dunno.

Big Belly Burger.
1

"It's called the League of Assassins for a reason!"
"In old Assyrian, it translates to League of Shadows"
"Shut up, Ra's!"
27

I've missed your wit. Also old Assyrian seems like a language where mistranslations would be super common.
5

All those people whining to Ollie about the assassins, and they forget that Ra's said they would obey the no kill rule if he ordered it. Seems like a lot more lives would be saved if he could just send a memo to stop the murdering.
"Apone, I need you to collect all the swords and knives.
No killing! You are now the League of Harsh Language!"
16

"...an older form of justice."
"Maybe we could call it the League of Justice?"
"No, that's a foolish name. I will not abide it."
"You're not my dad! I'll start my own League of Justice! With Black Canary! And Palmer!"

'Assassins' comes from 'Hashishim' "hash-users". So a drug-fiend like Thea could really help Ollie dramatically refocus them back on their core competencies.
This also explains why Ra's is always so chill, come to think. Long live the League of Stoners!
4

#############

I love when Oliver tells Felicity there were only a few casualties in the police station. For Christs sake, like every officer in there died, Ollie.
18

"Only a few casualties."
Jeez, Ollie. You said it yourself. Men with families. Lost their LIVES. But no biggie. Win for team Arrow.
8

In comparison to Ollie's other major saves (only 300 died, out of several thousand) its not that bad lol.
11

I think 500 died in the undertaking

"We're getting better! It was only in the single digits this time!"
10

Not every man with a family lost their life. They would have otherwise.
So, yeah. Win for Team Arrow.

There was a fairly significant slaughter of the cops at the precinct in this episode, but by Starling City standards I don't think it was that bad, since some of them were left alive at the end.
5

I'm amazed that town has cops left. Or has been able to get more cops. I can only imagine the recruiting posters: "Join Sterling City PD, Because There's Nothing Left of the Glades to Be Blown Up"
9

On that note how many times have the police precinct been overrun by murderous thugs? This is what, the third time? Worst precinct ever.
1

Lol Capt Lance

"We don't care if you drink at work!"
2

If they whine about it, Olie will send Roy to kill a few more cops and stalk their families.
11

Diamond tipped bullets and yeah only a few casualties....by few he means if your name wasn't Lance they're all dead.
5

"Only like...seven dude died. Who want's some Big Belly Burger? I'm buying!"
4

Yeah I actually started chuckling, then said "Did you forget about how almost every cop in there got perforated? Oh, wait, they weren't named characters, so they basically don't matter. You go, Ollie!"
This review is hilarious to me because it calls Ollie's moment of contentment "well-earned" when it completely isn't.

I hope Felicity copyrights Evil Incorporated. I'm sure the League of Assassins wouldn't object.
15

Pretty sure Gotham already took that for when they want to have a more subtle episode.
14

Homicide International Trust. An Evil Incorporated subsidiary.
3

"I work for HIT."
"HIT me."
"They're about to get..." *puts sunglasses on* "...Hit!"
2

And his name is Tommy Monaghan. "I'm some kind of Hit...guy."
1

Whoa. I did NOT see that ending coming at all. Anyways, this episode was all about Oliver considering Ra's Al-Ghul's offer to become his heir. I feel like this episode was all about Oliver just reviewing why he was the Arrow and nothing else.
What I liked:
- The fight scenes. All of them. From the fight between Nyssa, Laurel and Roy, the first fight with Murmur and his goons and the second one at the police station.
-The Olicity scenes. They were awesome! This leads to my next point
-Glad to see a less self-righteous Felicity this time around.
-NYSSA IS GOING TO TRAIN LAUREL!!!!!!!
-Nice Thea and Roy scene!!! I hope they become an item again.
-Flashback scenes were awesome! So surprised to see Shado again. While I do think it was a hallucination, it makes me really miss Shado a lot.
-Ra's masquerading as the Arrow to get the police to go after him. I did not see that coming at all.
What I disliked:
-Nothing really, but I think my High expectations ruined it. Maybe I expected Oliver to take longer in making this sort of decision, like an episode or two.
I did not see Ra's pretending to be the Arrow to get the police to turn on him (and force him to accept his offer). At all. Now I think Quentin Lance shutting him out was laying the seeds for him eventually going after him (if he was still a partner of the Arrow, he would probably give him the benefit of the doubt). I feel these next few episode are going to be BANANAS!!!!!!! I loved all the romance scenes in this episode. I was saddened that Oliver made his decision on taking up Ra's Al-Ghul's offer so soon by rejecting it. However, maybe being chased by the cops will make him think re-contemplate taking up Ra's Al-Ghul's offer. All in all, a good episode, I will give it a 9.0 out of 10 (I was considering either an 8.6 or an 8.9 though). I can't for next week's Suicide Squad episode. That looks like it is going to be great!!!!!!!
3

The only thing I didn't like about Felicity was her turning up the *****. She's best when she's awkward and flustered.
2

Its funny. If you watch closely during the Ollie/Felicity scene at Palmer's lab, you can see him make the most obvious glance at her ***** as she turns around...
5

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If one thing can come from this simmering mess, can we PLEASE get Nyssa to also train Thea?
I'm not ready for Ra's Ollie Ghul, but sign me up for that!
12

Nyssa, Laurel, and Thea sweating and fighting in sports bras..... It will be the perfect parallel to the Dig, Roy, Oliver shirtless training scenes.
9

I actually would probably watch a spinoff of the show that was just watching them working out. That would be pretty cost effective too, I wonder if somebody will do that at some point. Sort of like Talking Dead but with less talking and more grunting.
5

If I win the lottery, I promise you I will Evil Lincoln.
1

I don't often use this word, but if you produce a spinoff show of the Arrow cast working out in character, you would be the greatest hero in American history.
2

Given that I'm English, would that be allowed?
2

world history, then
2

Even better! I'm in :D
1

Which Dig, Roy, Oliver shirtless training scenes? :(
Everyone's ALWAYS wearing a shirt this stupid season…
3

I could've swore there was one. Maybe I'm misremembering. Oh well... if it brings out my suggestion then I'm all for it! :-)

It was like, a whole season ago. Remember when Oliver trained shirtless with tires in the middle of the foundry for no reason? Oh these were the good days!

If those 3 trained together....omg I'm already drooling. Felicity who?
2

It's only a perfect parallel if the girls are also completely topless.
2

Again I say - fishnets.

I could see Nyssa eventually becoming part of Team Arrow, and her turning her back on Ra's, only for him to then have her killed and try to resurrect and brainwash her with the Lazarus Pit, only for it to fail, and leave him realizing how much his arrogance has cost him, like with Damian Wayne.
3

I've always assumed that the end of this season is going to be Ras' end, and Nyssa taking over the league, to be used as an ally now and again but otherwise bringing things with the LoA to a stalemate. Just my theory.
1

Apparently, the finale is going to be a massive paradigm shift for the show.

Mayor Queen confirmed.

But he survived my sword! Send all other applicants home while I hit the tub!
1

I was impressed at the revelation that a) the Lazarus Pit is totally part of the TV Arrow universe, and b) it had nothing to do with Oliver surviving a sword through the chest followed by a fall from a cliff.
(It's like the old rule, if there's a gun on the wall in the first act, then it'll hang there pointlessly while someone chokes to death on his soup in the third.)

#############@
"I missed your sister. I suppose I wanted something to remind me of her." Laurel/Nyssa confirmed.
27

Lauryssa?
Nyssel?
4

Nyssa accidentally calls her Sara while making out.
20

Better than Laurel accidentally saying Ollie
9

Make it so.
2

This show is perfect for all those intro to psych students who need paper topics.
2

... Well it is.

"accidentally"
2

Or...Laurel accidentally calls her Sara while making out!
4

Lauryssa Nyssyl? I think I have one of those in my EDH Elf Deck...
Wow, that was nerdy even for here.
EDIT: Is it more or less nerdy if I realized that's actually the name of a Warmachine caster, not a Magic card?
3

"So...when you lost your virginity, I was playing Magic the Gathering."
"...Seth, you still play Magic the Gathering."
"Yeah, but not as much."
1

Prepare the Nyssel launchers!
5

"Put on the wig and mask. Leave the jacket off, it'll only get in the way."
27

What about the black lipstick?
As an aside... I still really like Canary's outfit in this.
4

All part of Nyssa's plan to prove herself the equal of Oliver by scoring with both Lance sisters. Phase 2... Felicity.
22

Phase 3: Roy?
4

Please. That'll get her in the same league, but right at the bottom. She'll still have to go bang the Huntress, McKenna Hall, the hallucinatory Shado from Ollie's latest flashback, and Berlin from Defiance.
... If they make this a subplot for the rest of the season, I will absolutely not object.
10

Don't forget Summer Glau. Who's character name I actually forget.
7

Phase 3... profit?
1

followed by Huntress

"You will be... alone."
Oliver/Right Hand confirmed (16 episodes of abstinence, and counting!)
11

He uses his left so it feels like someone else. And wears a red glove.

diamond bullets are one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. why don't people understand the Mohs scale?
3

You mean, "Mohs money, mohs problems?"
22

I am facepalming with laughter. Why the ***** am I laughing?
5

Booze and/or stress?
6

Diamond-Tipped arrow, though. Now that's plausible.
Unnecessary, but plausible.
4

Listen man, when you've got to break a diamond cage to save the Justice League by hitting it at one particular angle, that diamond-tipped arrow is necessary.
1

Also aren't armor piercing bullets a real thing? Why not just buy some of those instead if going through with this convoluted plan of stealing the diamonds and making the bullets?
2

Because the Starling City cops wear anti-armour-piercing-bullet body armour. You must have missed that scene
4

How are there any cops left in Starling City? How many times has that precinct gotten all shooted up?
2

Yup, and real armor piercing bullets address things that actually matter in penetration such as increased density and shaped impacts, as opposed to hardness, which is trivial.

And even if you want to make diamond-tipped bullets for some reason, industrial diamonds are (as the show established) cheap. So why bother with the elaborate heist? (Even if Murmur doesn't have the spare cash-- and you know, maybe he could just pay one fewer goon-- he just needs to knock over a liquor store or three.)

----
Strong episode. Lance's monologue to the Arrow was great. I feel that Arrow is finally back on track to what it had been.
but I hope the Shado reveal doesn't ***** up anything they went through last year
16

Needed more blowing up Oliver's spot.
A "***** off, Oliver," would have made that scene.
2

Slade will come back to just ***** about Shado again now.
8

It's his thing to whine about lost loves...

It won't. Even if Slade finds out she's alive, he'll still keep the grudge against Ollie for beating & imprisoning him, and then eventually just hate him for no reason. Just like when he went after the Titans because the HIVE gave his son superpowers that killed him.
1

Here's an idea, the show ends with Roy leading his own team, and Oliver and Slade teaming up.
1

Ah, Red Hood and the Outlaws. That book is apparently only now getting canceled.

Since Slade killed Moira, Oliver will spend season 4 protecting him and preparing the Slade-Thea wedding.
13

And then he'll have to confront his real feelings for Slade, so he'll be fighting Thea to win Slade's heart. Then we'll find out the Moira is still alive, then she'll marry Slade, so now Thea and Ollie have a crush on their step-dad.
6

Give him credit: he did that one for money. He went pointlessly insane against them because he was forced to kill his other son, who possessed him.
1

.....
.

Arrow really should have named Episode 16: Daddy Issues.
9

Yeah, Laurel has issues with her father, Thea has issues her Dad, and Nyssa has issues with her Dad.
2

Slumber party episode when? All 3 girls talk about their daddy issues.
5

I think fan-fiction already has that covered. My guess is most of it could not be done on TV due to standards and practices.
6

The pillow fight would escalate so fast...
3

...in my pants.
7

I should have seen my comment would lead to this. Ha.
3

All roads lead to "my pants"
1

A true warrior is prepared to sleep on a pillow made of ball bearings...
2

I'm looking forward to all the Nyssa/Laurel sexual tension that everyone will claim is canon.
4

Canon can go to hell, Nyssa needs somebody alive to hook up with and I think Laurel will work.

Starz will run it.

Then make out
1

There is an adorable bit of fan art posted on Katrina Law's twitter feed of exactly this slumber party

(Roy sits on a park bench, alone on Fathers Day)
11

"Listen, Roy. I know how lonely it can be to grow up not knowing your dad. I've got a son named Connor in Central City who I've never met or acknowledged..."
17

Dude's got a kickass costume, beat Ra's al Ghul's daughter in a fight, got to read a book, and got his ex back. He had the best night out of anyone this episode.
13

Arrow really should have named Episode 16: Daddy Issues.
No, that was the pilot.

Maybe they get one each season "Daddy issues 2 Electric Boogalu" Daddy issues 3, What about me?" "Daddy issues 4 Parkour out the Door"
3

###########

#1 should always be reserved for the Salmon Ladder, even if it hasn't appeared lately. It could be Salmon Ladder-Nobody: Man, do we miss the Salmon Ladder, or what?
Salmon Ladder Forever!
3

Oliver-R'as? I'd put it at least at number 7. They could take a bath together in the magic healing water and things could just get out of hand . . . . plus, R'as clearly admires him - given that he went out of his way to make a cute little duplicate costume.
Which could lead to the weirdest Arrow-on-Arrow roleplay ***** times.
3

I am a fan of Oliver-R'as, that was probably my favorite teaming that I didn't include in the list. R'as has an interesting attitude toward Oliver it seems like, admiring his resourcefulness but still seeing him as just a "boy."

Fifty Shades of Green?
I'm pretty sure that's already out there somewhere.
Probably includes Eddie from The Flash and his punshing bag.

"while I would have preferred them making out so hard that it broke her glasses, I will take it." my sentiments exactly
1

There would have literally been no point to season 2 if she had never died.
Slade freaking out because of Ivo's vendetta was stupid anyway, whether it is Shado or not. And she didn't recognize Olie so I would say twin sister, in true Arrow soap tradition.
4

Or memory loss from being shot in the head...
2

I thought Ollie hallucinated seeing her. No?

Hell, he probably even gave Shado a dip in the Lazarus pit so he could find out where her dad got his hood so he could get one just like it for his costume.
5

Watching that last scene between Nyssa and Laurel, I wondered: what are the odds of Nyssa pulling an Ollie and sleeping with both Lance sisters? I think Sara would approve, from above. I know I do approve. Shirtless training sessions!
14

"Your first lesson: "If you fight naked, you can never be disarmed!""
"Um, are you sure...?"
"Yes, now strip!"
11

The only upside to Arrow being on pay cable. Though with all the work Katie Cassidy did, I worry about how freaky she may look naked.
Who am I kidding?, I am not worried at all.
3

Google is your friend

Maybe they brought Shado back so there's a chance of a Slade redemption? I think a lot of viewers are praying he gets less batshit crazy so he can join the Suicide Squad (which, honestly, is more interesting to me than Oliver-Screw Up is at this point.
1

It's never too soon.

Where's Wildcat at, also?

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